cometes ciertas 'meteduras de pata' históricas..... (espero no extenderme mucho)....
Quizás sí pero esto es lo bueno de debatir aprender del intercambio
La referencia a Espartaco era porque forma parte del imaginario popular gracias a Kubrick y era para ilustrar que los profesionales/luchadores en modalidad duelo no eran necesariamente un poder militar..La simple agregación de luchadores no era suficiente contra una fuerza militar. Y tú ilustras este punto...
[
pues te equivocas, los samurais no erean iguales a los aristóratas Europeos,
Yo creo que los dos formaban parte de un estamento superior...y tenían el privilegio de portar espada como los hidalgos...etc...Las Castas sólo en la India????? La sociedad estamental no es de Castas??? Y las etnocracias coloniales???'...En fin yo creo que idealizas a los samurais ...KUROSAWA da una imagen más realista y los 7 samurais, Rashomon o no me acuerdo del titulo de la que describe a Musashi como un auténtico bruto hasta que se encuentra con el monje que lo centra....Por cierto lo interesante también es leer relatos de Occidentales que describen a los samurais como "Casta Guerrera" extremadamente violenta.
Sobre los samurais como Casta y la estructura social del periodo Tokugawa (dictadura militar)
Under the Tokugawa shoguns (1598-1867), the class system of Japan, like everything else, became strictly codified.
At the top of pyramid, of course, were the emperor and the imperial family, but they were essentially separate from society. The real top layer of the system was the warrior class, the samurai. There were higher and lower ranks within the samurai class, as well. They had political and social privileges unlike
any others.
The samurai were allotted the rice-income from certain amounts of land in accordance with their rank, and were responsible for administering that land and completing the vast amounts of bureaucratic paperwork associated with it. At this point in history, the majority of samurai no longer lived in the countryside. The option of being farmers (as well as warriors) was no longer open to them. They had become concentrated in castle-towns. The 200-300 wealthiest and most powerful - the daimyo - were actually required to spend every other year living in Edo, the capital,
with their families and retainers. They would return to their home domains during in-between years, but leave their families behind in Edo as quasi-hostages. (This alternating year arrangement was one of the shogun's many efforts to
prevent rebellion and maintain peace in the countryside.) By 1787, Edo had swelled to a population of 1.4 million, one of the largest cities in the world, including 80,000 of the
shogun's own retainers.
Nonetheless, the samurai were only a small percentage of the overall population. The next lower class was the most populous, the peasants. Japan was closed off from the rest of the world, and therefore had to be utterly self-sufficient in most requirements of life. Rice, the staple food, was also a major form of currency. So the farmers were officially held in high esteem.
In practice however, farmers were trapped in lives of virtually unrelieved misery. They worked incredibly hard and were allowed very few luxuries, even if they could afford them. Everything about their lives was regulated, down to the types of fabric allowed for their clothing. They were tenant farmers, not land-owners, and had to pay the daimyo a certain percentage of what the land was supposed to produce, regardless of
whether or not the crop lived up to
expectations. In bad years, they often had very little left to make ends meet, and periodically rioted.
The farmers could not escape the land, either. Every effort was made to keep them in the country and away from influences that would increase their sense of discontent.
The next group downwards was the craft and artisan class. They were divided into craftsman those whose customers came to them - i.e. craftsmen who have a shop - and those who went where the work was. The suppliers of military goods, swordsmiths and polishers, shaft-makers, armorers, etc. were often tied to a specific family for whom they worked exclusively. There were many other trades that served all classes and occupations, such as woodworkers, plasterers, sawyers, carpenters, mat-makers, dyers, and sake-brewers. Quite a few among these - those who traveled to their work - lived nomadic lives, enjoying far more freedom than most others in Japanese society of that period.
The lowest class was the merchants. Officially they were despised because they produced nothing, and were seen as parasites making profit from the labor of others.
In practice, however, the merchant class emerged during the 17th and 18th centuries to a position of great wealth, despite their lack of social standing. The movement of the samurai class away from farms and
the growth of castle-towns meant that more and more goods had to be made and sold for daily life. Trade meant hard currency. The long months in town between rice harvests and the taxation system on rice fostered the growth of speculation in future rice, and loans
based on "theoretical rice." Each transaction created an opportunity for profit. Foreign trade also increased the power of the merchants. After the pacification, the forcibly unemployed samurai had time on their hands, and the entrepreneurs were eager to provide them opportunities in town
to spend money. All of these factors led to the merchants becoming vastly wealthy, although it did not give them political power.
A few groups stood outside the social structure. Actors and entertainers were considered inadmissible to polite society. They were perceived as immoral. The government was suspicious of their influence, despite their popularity among the commoners.
Certain types of people were considered untouchable, most notably those who had professional contact with death. Dead animals were considered defiling, in accordance with Buddhist beliefs. Those who made leather were untouchable, as were executioners and the specialists who tested new swords by cutting up corpses.
Perhaps the most free people in society were the ronin - the samurai who had lost their masters. If a samurai's master died without heirs or was disgraced and had to commit seppuku, his retainers became masterless. They could offer their services to another
lord, but not all did. Because they had no fixed means of support, they were often considered dangerous ruffians - and some probably were. Their lives were often nomadic, seeking employment where they could find it. The image of the ronin from the famous movie THE SEVEN SAMURAI is perhaps far more romantic than the truth, but in the strictly regulated society of Edo Japan, they stood alone, for better or for worse.
Cita de una universidad USA sobre el cine de KUROSAWA
The samurai were a
warrior cast of lower nobility during Japan's feudal period (11th to 18th centuries). Like medieval knights in Europe, they were usually bound to the service of a superior lord. The traditional samurai stories recount their heroic deeds and draw lessons about bravery and loyalty. However, Kurosawa, like Bergman in The Seventh Seal, used his medieval trappings in order to tell a much more complex and much more modern story. For one thing, he applies a much greater degree of realism in developing his samurai. For another, he selects samurai who have been cut loose from feudal service ("ronin") and mixes them with would-be samurai as well as with farmers and bandits. What moral and ethical themes result from these alterations in character development?
Sorpresa usa la expresión casta guerrera y esta expresión es común en la literatura sobre samurais y habla de los RONIN...más cercanos a los hidalgos conquistadores...Por cierto los samurais también se dedicaban a lo mismo con los aborigenes de Japón, los AINU...Pero este genocidio es menos conocido......Mucha gente ignora que los Japoneses no son la población originaria de JAPON sino los descendientes de los conquistadores....
Por cierto dentro de nada se estrena "el ultimo samurai" que tiene una interesante sección en historia de los samurais en
http://www.thelastwarrior.com
con, pongamos un ejemplo dentro de la misma sociedad pero retrasandola un poco más un caballero templario, un monje guerrero (eso si puede ser un artista marcial en el amplisimo sentido de la palabra)
o por ponerte un ejemplo un samurai del siglo XVI (c**o el renacimiento Europeo, el cincueccento) .
para que los foreros vean de que va esta discusión sobre lo que no apreciamos de la artes europeas ir a
http://www.aemma.org/articles_top.htm. Es una web muy interesante que rompe muchos tópicos sobre nuestro exotismo...
pero eso no indica que la sociedad, ni sus dirigentes estuvieran cerca de aquello, es más según lo que dices de la defensa de la religión Católica
Me refería a las luchas de Religión que asolaron Europa y especialmente Francia..Ya sabes protestantes contra católicos y aquí los esta historia la escribieron con sangre...Como referencia la web de antes sobre AAMM europeas
además creo que la revolución francesa, no es una revolución democrática,
Revolución liberal y democrática al igual que la Revolución Americana y la propuesta de la "nación en armas" para enfrentarse a los ejercitos del Antiguo Régimen nace ahí.
sino más bien una revolución Buerguesa,
Hombre las revoluciones socialista de democrático poco
luego este ejercito Napoleónico si que dista mucho de lo que tu dices de ejercito Nacional (ojo que el concepto de estado Nación es posterior a Napoleón, es más este sentimiento surge precisamente en el tras la derrota Napoleónica,
...Dioses y lo que cuenta la historiografia española de nación-estado que nace con los católicos...y Maquiavelo y los estados-condotieros-soldatos etc...del Renacimiento Cesar Borgia y el Bueno de Fernando el Católico...La conquista de NAvarra etc......Tio aquí si que has patinado o es que España, Francia, Inglaterra, USA, no eran naciones estado antes que Napoleón...Consulta tu propia historiografia ya no hablo de la amplia lliteratura sobre el origen y desarrollo de la nación-estado....Pero este es toro debate volviendo a AAMM y samurais...El estado-nación moderno se crea en la época MEIJI en contra de los samurais...que fueron derrotados por el ejercito imperial el mismo que terminó con la superioridad occidental al vencer a Rusia.
Para más info sobre los samurais
http://www.samurai-archives.com/
En fin no creo que sean desvarios sino emplazar cada AAMM y su evolución en contextos históricos y sociales concretos y sigo manteniendo que ahora las AAMM tienen muy poco de guerreras y si de sistemas de autodefensa que se aplica mayoritariamente en modalidad duelo.
Cita de la Real Academia duelo combate o pelea entre dos, a consecuencia de un reto o desafio....
Y es aquí donde radica su marco de desarrollo actual en el XXI
pido perdón por el error anterior. Gracias
Joder, si hasta me da "cosa" contestar a algunos de tus posts porque son demasiado "profundos" 