Foro de artes marciales, deportes de contacto, musculación, fitness, salud

Hola,

Como la botica. Pues sí tienes razón. Piensa que el GM Choi y el GM Ji Han Jae eran buscados por todo el mundo pero Habían GM Maestros y luchadores de Otras disciplinas. En esas reuniones hubo Maestros que compartieron Tecnicas y conocimientos entre unos peros no con todos. Hay la diferencia de estilos. Unos mas decantados por las Proyecciones (CASA Korea GM CHA), Palo Corto (Ulji KWan) ...

saludos

Hola a tod@s
Siete dijo:

GM In Hyuk Suh el cual estuvo entrenando bajo GM CHOI duarante unos 3 meses

mmm, no fue su hermano In Sun Seo?
Adéu

Hola,

No, fue GM In Hyuk Suh. Por cierto el KUK SOOL WON se considera como un arte marcial coreano.Muchos Maestros que he preguntado consideran el KUK SOOL WON como un arte Marcial China y no coreana.

Kuk Sool: “Traditional” Korean Martial Art ?

podrías elaborar esto de "Tradicional" ?

Gracias

SIETE dijo:

Kuk Sool: “Traditional” Korean Martial Art ?

Hola
No sé si me lo preguntas a mi!!! De todas maneras te respondo.
Kuk Sool= técnicas de corea.
El calificativo de tradicional no se desprende de la traducción literal. A menos que esté equivocado
Supongo que en las páginas web de KSW queda más chulo la traducción al inglés que se hace del nombre coreano. Recordemos que los americanos son los reyes del marqueting!!!!!!!!

Te adjunto algo en relación a mi pregunta sobre quién estudió bajo Choi:

"Grandmaster In Sun Seo has been involved in martial arts since the 1950's and is currently one of the most respected Korean martial artist and a true pioneer representing the first generation of Korean martial artists.

Grandmaster Seo is the only first generation martial artist to teach and operate a dojang in Korea continuously for the last 40 years. He is the epitome of a true martial artist who combines his technical skills with great wisdom to tirelessly serve the growing martial arts community of Korea as well as the rest of the world.

As of present time, Grandmaster In Sun Seo has certified 270,000 Black Belts and he serves as President/Chairman of World Kido Federation, Han Min Jok Hapkido Association and Korea Kuk Sool Association. GM Seo continues to travel the world to teach and share his martial arts knowledge and skills.

Timeline
* 1958 - Receives 1st Dan in Hapkido(From Teacher Choi Yong Sul)"

Y un regalito:

"Moo Yea Sin Moon - January 2006
Moo Yea Sinmoon is the leading martial arts newspaper in Korea which distributes to over 15,000 dojangs. This newspaper will be running multi-part feature series on GM In Sun Seo.
Part 1

Part 1: Unifying Hapkido will grow it to an International Martial Art

Q. In this cold weather, how are you doing?
A. I’m still very confident about my health. Every year, I travel the world to visit member schools and I conduct 7 hours a day seminars and I personally demonstrate the techniques.

Even now, because I stretch and train 2 hours a day, I’m healthy. When I’m abroad, the foreigners are first surprised at my age and then they surprised a second time when I perform the techniques.

Q. No one will object to the statement that you are a founding father of Hapkido. When did you start?
A. I first met my teacher (Grandmaster) Choi Young Sul in 1957 and received my 1st dan in 1958. Since 1945, GM Choi Young Sul spread Hapkido but when he met Mr. Suh Bok Sup in 1953 in Daegu, he opend a dojang in the second floor of Mr. Suh’s Brewery. That was the beginning of Hapkido Dojangs in Korea. After that, the second dojang was opened and that’s where I practiced.

Q. When did you first open your school?
A. In 1961. I opened the Korea Kuk Sool Won Hapkido Dojang. During that era, Grandmaster Ji Han Jae first opened Sung Moo Kwan Hapkido in Andong prior to my school and in 1959, he opened Sung Moo Kwan Dojang in Seoul. Master Kim Moo Hong, an instructor under GM Ji, went independent in 1961 and opened a Sin Moo Kwan Hapkido Dojang. That was the start of the three branches of Hapkido that live today.

Q. Hapkido from the start had phases of division?
A. Yes, but shortly afterwards, there as an effort for unification. With GM Choi Young Sul at the center, we all agreed that “it shouldn’t be this way” formed Dae Han Kido Hae. At the time, we received permission from the Ministry of Education and GM Choi Yong Sul was elected the first chairman and Mr. Kim Kyung Dong was elected president. However, this still did not achieve unification. I think the main reason that we didn’t reach unification was due to the stubbornness of the 1st generation martial artists in Korea at that time. If all of us took a step back and worked together, it would have been possible. Instead, many of the individuals involved were young and hot blooded. In retrospect, it was very regrettable and a big opportunity we missed.

Q. There was another brief period when it appeared unification was possible. It seemed significant when Mr. Kim Woo Joong (Found of Dae Woo) appeared on the scene?
A. At the time in Seoul, Sung Moo Hapkido called itself “Dae Han Hapkido” and Sin Moo Hapkido called itself “Han Kuk Hapkido.” They united and called it “Dae Han Min Kuk Hapkido” with Mr. Kim taking part in this unification. However, at that time they couldn’t embrace Dae Han Kidohae and failed to achieve complete unification. At that time, Kim Woo Joong declared that he was going to make the combined Hapkido Organization bigger than Kukkiwon. Of course that didn’t happen.

Q. You were president of Dae Han Kidohae for a very long time. You must have a lot of memories?
A. I became president of Dae Han Kidohae in 1983. In the beginning of my tenure, one of my goals was to introduce the idea that the term “Dae Han Kuk Sool Won” would be a more appropriate term than “Hapkido” to represent the breadth of Martial Arts practiced under the Kidohae. We use the term Hapkido and Japan uses the same term (Aikido and Hapkido have the same Chinese character root) and I thought that it would be a better name for our martial arts and tried to make the change. However the government would not give permission to us for two reasons. First, the Hapkido name and branding around the name in the Korean consciousness was very strong. Second, the meaning of the words Kuk Sool Won (national Korean martial arts association) was deemed to be too generic. Therefore, I decided to support the name Hapkido instead. After that, I continued to meet with Dae Han Hapkido’s president Oh Sae Lim and Kuk Jae Hapkido’s president Myong Jae Nam to discuss unification. In the 80’s, over 80% of all Hapkido schools in Korea belonged to our three organizations. Even with these frequent meetings however, we were not able to unify Hapkido throughout my tenure as president of the Kidohae.

Q. If the 1st generation could not achiever unification, do you think it is possible now?
A. I believe it is possible. There are many Hapkido Organizations but in reality, only a few of them have significance in terms of number of schools and influence. I intend to form a kind of network/alliance with the 1st generation heads of different Hapkido organizations and styles so we can socialize and interact. Doing this will naturally help lead towards unification. Also, with the registration of Hapkido with the Korea Sports Association, we should see more of a spotlight on Hapkido in Korea and see more changes.

Q. From your long history in the Martial Arts, share some memorable episodes?
A. When I was young and just opened a dojang in Busan, there was a famous hoodlum in my area renown for his fighting ability. He was going around announcing that he could beat me in a fight. So I was training and waiting for the right opportunity to face him. Then one early morning, I saw him face to face and we met to fight. I executed a decisive technique on him and defeated him easily. Since I took control of him so easily and effectively, he said to me “I will treat you as my elder brother for life!” There were many such incidents such as this and many of the students that ended up joining my school had originally approached me in that fashion. There were a lot of difficulties and dangers involved for Hapkido in its infancy but it is great to see how far it has come.

Q. I’m curious about the current situation of the Hanminjok Hapkdio Association?
A. At this time, we have about 350 schools in Korea and many more outside of Korea. Because of the support of many Masters in our organization, both in Korea and Overseas, in the last 3 years we have grown at an incredibly rapid pace. Going forward, I’m going to work harder to continue to give back positively to Hapkido. Keep your eyes open as Hanmijok Hapkido Association becomes the best Hapkido organization!

Q. Any plans for your organization soon?
A. This coming April 15-16, we will be hosting an International Hapkido Compeition with over 20 nations participating. Not just with talk but with action, we are striving to be a positive example for other organizations through the various events and programs we are a part of.

Q. Can Hapkido achieve the international success that Tae Kwon Do has?
A. Of course! Many people say that Hapkido self defense techniques are superior to and more complete than modern “sport oriented” Tae Kwon Do. This is very apparent by how many martial artists of other styles seek to learn Hapkido and earn Hapkido Dans. The reason why such a great art like Hapkido doesn’t grow more is because it is not united. It is important to achieve unification soon, preserve the techniques, and improve on them and announce to the world “this is Hapkido.” If that is done, we can grow as big as Tae Kwon Do. I would also like to take this opportunity to once again express that it is very important that Hapkido unfies soon and that all Hapkido practitioners should take this to heart.

Q. The new year, 2006, is here. Anything you want to say to the Martial Artists out there?
A. Martial Artists should always be ready to serve others and should always keep in mind that we need to be good examples to others. We need to know that it is more important to have etiquette and respect than trying to learn one more technique. It is especially important to respect your seniors and love you juniors. I hope that you all have plenty of these positive thoughts and strive to apply them to your everyday lives. I wish all of you good fortune and good health in the new year!

Part 2: "I chose Hapkido for my life instead of a secure job."

Making the decision for a profession

When I graduated from Dae Gu Commerce High Scool in 1960, I was torn between pursuing martial arts and starting a career. The high school I graduated from was the best business high school in Korea at that time.

During this time, Korea was a very poor country with the GDP per capital being less than $100. Because of my education, getting a good job for me was not a problem but I struggled with my life’s direction. After much thought, I decided to direct my life to martial arts, i.e. Hapkido. In order to become the best in my chosen path, I trained more than 10 hours a day, everyday to perfect my Hapkido skill and knowledge.

In December of 1964, few months before I was to be honorably discharged from the Korean Army, I was chosen to go to Vietnam.(with the first Korean deployment) I served in Vietnam and I returned to Korea in 1965 and completed my duty, had many job offers. I passed the entrance exam for a commerce bank, received approval for governmental jobs, and was recommended for the Korean Intelligence Agency. However I pledge to dedicate my life to Hapkido and help grow it as the best Korean Martial Art. In 1965, I was appointed a Master of Kuk Sool Won-Hapkido.

The training methods of 1960’s Kuk Sool Won-Hapkido

My daily training schedule was to practice striking, kicking and self defense techniques for 6 hours, forms for 4 hours. For self defense techniques training I practiced with the students and used that time to hone my skills in realistic fighting situations. Because of this, all of our students were excellent in sparring and self defense techniques and this in turn help them realize the full strength of Hapkido.

My favorite kick is the spin kick and as recent as last February, I demonstrated this kick at my seminar in the United States. Back in the 60’s, I used to practice 3000 spin kicks a day in order to perfect the kick to be used in actual fighting situations. Thinking back now, it was indeed a very difficult training schedule. However I wanted to make sure my kicks were applicable in real life situations and only way to do that was to patiently practice. I think because of all those kicks I did back then, I am still able to execute the spin kick at my age now. At the time I was appointed a Master in 1965, I weighed 71 kg. But after I implemented my training schedule of 10 hours a day for three years, I dropped to 51 kg. At this weight my body was all muscle and I had lost nearly all my body fat . I believe this was due to the severity of my training in addition to not having enough nutritious foods available.

In the 60’s, most dojangs were very poor and hardly any of them had mats and other equipment. Most masters lived in their dojangs. Korea back then was so poor that when you opened a dojang, there were two dozen students who lived in the dojang to train. Many times it was difficult to deal with all the expenses of having so many students live with you but it also allowed you to teach excellent techniques and martial arts spirit to them and produce very capable instructors in a short period of time. This enabled for Kuk Sool Won- Hapkido in the 1960’s to spread to all of Korea very quickly.

I trained with and trained many key masters who were instrumental in spreading Hapkido throughout Korea. Some key individuals and the schools that they established are: 1963-Master Lee, Han Chul (Suh Dae Moon Dojang, Seoul), 1964-Master Kim, Woo Tak (Ul Ji Ryo Dojang, Seoul), 1964- Master Lee, Joo Bang (Jong Ryo 5 Ga Dojang, Seoul), 1963- Master Pak, In Suk, Master Cho, Chang Hyung (Kyong Ju Dojang), 1963- Master Seo, In Suk, Master Chung, Jin Sook (Yeo Soo Dojang), 1964- Master Seo, In Suk, Master Jang, Myong Ho, Master Kim, Sae Joon (Mok Poe Dojang), 1965- Master Lee, Jong Oh (Seo Myun, Busan Dojang), 1966- Master Seo, In Suk, Master Lim Hee Ee, Instructor Kim, Yong Bong, Instructor Lee, Yoon Woo (Kun San Dojang), 1966- Master Byun, Jong Won (Dan Shin Dong, Busan Dojang), 1966- Master Kim, Chang Soo (Kim Je Dojang), 1966- Master Oh, Soo Bok (Wool San Dojang), 1967- Master Cho, Jae Soo (Dong San Dong, Busan Dojang), 1967- Master Kang, Kang Jung, Master Cho, Ja Rong (Young Doong Pyo, Seoul Dojang), 1967- Master Kim Seong Jin (Sa Dang Dong, Seoul Dojang), 1968- Master Byun, Sae Ki, Master Pak, Jung Kyu (Ma San Dojang), 1968- Master Lim Kyu Uk (Mil Yang Dojang).

There were some others who were instrumental in proliferation of Hapkido during those early days that I may have inadvertently omitted and I ask for understanding in such cases.

At this point, I want to reiterate that those were difficult times and starting a Hapkido Dojang was extremely difficult endeavor. And this is a fact that I am hoping later generations of Hapkido Masters understand and respect. "

Adéu

Hola,

Y entonces "National Martial Art" ? creis que es justa la traducíon?

Ciao now!

Hola

Super interesante !!!

Ahora me lo leo ! I will be back

National Martial Art

Ufff, aquí estamos en lo de siempre. Que además ya se ha comentado en otros post.
La cultura coreana hipernacionalista (debido a motivos históricos) busca claramente desmarcarse de cualquier vinculación con Japón o China.
Si además sumamos:
1- El desarrollo del KSW en USA, recordemos que fue el PRIMER arte marcial con marca registrada (con dos c******s).
2- La dificultat de definir los conceptos coreanos a la concreción lingüística occidental, p.e. kuk:corea, nación, patria,...

Todo esto nos (les) lleva a un conjunto de definiciones del término kuk sool de diversa índole. En el fondo creo que lo que se busca es que el nombre sea "molón".
Adéu

Hola




Ya puedes decirlo

ciao now!

Sólo un par de cosas:

1º El actual presidente de la Korea Kuk Sool Association, si no estoy equivocado es el Maestro Yung (que por cierto vino a España el 12 de Mayo del año pasado a Sevilla, para la exhibición anual de nuestra Asociación.

2º

Byulkunjik escribió: 1- (con dos c******s).

Eso es muy discutible... y nada recomendable de decir a la ligera.

Saludos.

Hola ,

Q. No one will object to the statement that you are a founding father of Hapkido. When did you start?
A. I first met my teacher (Grandmaster) Choi Young Sul in 1957 and received my 1st dan in 1958. Since 1945, GM Choi Young Sul spread Hapkido but when he met Mr. Suh Bok Sup in 1953 in Daegu, he opend a dojang in the second floor of Mr. Suh’s Brewery. That was the beginning of Hapkido Dojangs in Korea. (YAWARA) After that, the second dojang was opened and that’s where I practiced.

Yo en mi opinión KUK SOOL WON no es HApkido.KUK SOOL WON es KUK SOOL WON. (SIPALKI + algo de defensa personal de Hapkido).

El Hapkido empezó en SUNG MOO KWAN Seúl( JI HAN JAE 8 DAN YAWARA por GM CHOI). Igual que Hwa Rang DO es Hwa Rang Do ( este en mi opinión sí es arte marcial Tradicional coreano + YAWARA GM LEE 8DAn por el GM CHOI).

Saludos


Saludos

interesante hilo.

Eso es muy discutible... y nada recomendable de decir a la ligera.

mmmm......yo creo que el comentario de Byulkunjik no es despectivo, y simplemente era una manera "vulgar" de expresar el registro comercial de un arte marcial.Que hay que tener un par para haerlo, en mi opinion....



un saludo.


David.

Hola a tod@s
DAMARPO dijo:

mmmm......yo creo que el comentario de Byulkunjik no es despectivo, y simplemente era una manera "vulgar" de expresar el registro comercial de un arte marcial.Que hay que tener un par para haerlo, en mi opinion....

Pues eso mismo, ¿qué habias entendido Chilifu? A ti te parece bien que alguien registre el mus, el chotis, la sardana o cualquier expresion de cultura popular-
Adéu

si por registrarlo................el caso es que es algo tan sumamente impensable, que................

SIETE escribió:Hola ,

Q. No one will object to the statement that you are a founding father of Hapkido. When did you start?
A. I first met my teacher (Grandmaster) Choi Young Sul in 1957 and received my 1st dan in 1958. Since 1945, GM Choi Young Sul spread Hapkido but when he met Mr. Suh Bok Sup in 1953 in Daegu, he opend a dojang in the second floor of Mr. Suh’s Brewery. That was the beginning of Hapkido Dojangs in Korea. (YAWARA) After that, the second dojang was opened and that’s where I practiced.

Yo en mi opinión KUK SOOL WON no es HApkido.KUK SOOL WON es KUK SOOL WON. (SIPALKI + algo de defensa personal de Hapkido).

El Hapkido empezó en SUNG MOO KWAN Seúl( JI HAN JAE 8 DAN YAWARA por GM CHOI). Igual que Hwa Rang DO es Hwa Rang Do ( este en mi opinión sí es arte marcial Tradicional coreano + YAWARA GM LEE 8DAn por el GM CHOI).

Saludos


Saludos

Hola de nuevo,

bueno, creo que una vez expuestos los hechos y adjuntada toda la información de la mayoría de los interlocutores y que "vivieron" el nacimiento del Hapkido, veo que empieza la ronda de opiniones, todas muy respetables eso hay que decirlo, pero que no dejan de ser opiniones personales.

En cuanto a que si el KSW es hapkido o no, ya se ha debatido en otras ocasiones y realmente ese debate no va a llegar a ningún lado.El KSW Americano no es KSW Koreano, ni es KSW-Hapkido, ni es el mismo que se practicaba en Busan que el de Seul, y así podríamos estar hasta el infinito... está clarao que el Seongmu Kwan Hapkido es distinto del Kuk Sul, eso nadie lo discute.

Yo veo varias cosas claras:

1º Que en 1963 se quiso UNIR el YuSul de GM Choi con el Hapkido de, libres sois de dar nombres, en un sólo arte marcial (con múltiples estilos eso si) llamado KIDO.

2º Que nuevamente en 1967 se intentó volver a unificar todas las artes marciales heredadas o con influencia del YuSul del GM Choi en una única asociación:

1967-1968 : DAEHAN MUDO HWE

- Korean Martial Arts Association: In 1967, Korean president Jeong-Hee Park ordered a number of prominent martial art masters to establish one governing organization that would encompass and unify all Korean martial arts and their organizations.
- The creation and organization of this new association was a combined effort of: Hwarangdo founder Joo-Bang Lee and Joo-Sang Lee, Kihapdo founder Dae-Hoon Choi, and Sungmukwan Hapkido founder Han-Jae Ji. The martial arts that were to be unified under the Daehan Mudo Hwe were: Hwarangdo®, Kuksool Hwe, Yusool, Hapkido, Seongmu Kwan, Yusool Kwan, Kuksool Kwan, Musool Kwan, Kwangmu Kwan, Pyungmu Kwan, Kihapdo, Kukkido, Kido, Yukwonsool, and Bulmudo.

3º Que en la actualidad todos los estilos/artes marciales (31 estilos diferentes) recogidos en la Korea Kido se unifican de cara a fuera de corea en un nombre común y ese no es otro que Kong In Hapkido (que significa literalmente "Hapkido reconocido oficialmente por el Gobierno").

son hechos y no opiniones.

Por cierto, ¿os habéis fijado que ya en 1967 diferenciaban el arte marcial de Kido con Hapkido, YuSul y Kuk sul? y por cierto nadie se rasgaba las vestiduras...


Saludos.

PD: Respecto al registro del KSW, Joseb te entendí todo lo contrario que estabas a favor... sorry.

Saludos,
he encontrado esta lista de las escuelas coreanas en un foro frances de hapkido.Estan puestas por orden cronologico.
¿que os parece?
D'après une autre liste d'un site Coréen voici une liste des écoles chronologiquement :

_ CHOI Yong Sul ( 1899-1986 )
1952 / SO BOK SOP SO BYONG DON JANG SEUNG HO ( Hapki Yu Kwon Sul )
_ SONG MU KWAN par JI HAN JAE
_ SIN MOO KWAN par MOON JONG WON et KIM MOO HONG

_ KANG MOO JIN ( kyong bok yu sool kwan )
_ SONG JONG HAE ( Song Moo kwan )
_ JONG MOO KWON ( Pyong Moo Kwan )
_ SIN SANG TCHOL ( Kwang Moo Kwan )
_ JANG JONG PYO et KIM KWANG HO

_ Han Dong Yu Sul 1956
YU YONG HU / OH SE LIM / KWON TAE MAN / KIM YON JAE ( Yong Moo Kwan )
KIM JONG SU ( Yon Bi Kwan )
KIM JONG YUN ( Han Pul )

_ Seoul Song Mu Kwan 1957
YO MAN YONG / NAM YONG HU / LEE MIN MYONG ( Yu Shim Kwan )
HWANG DOK KYU ( BI Lyong Kwan ) / SO IN HYOK ( Kuk Sul Hae )
KANG JONG SOO / MYONG KWANG SHIK ( Yon Moo Kwan ) / KIM JONG YUN ( Sae Shim Kwan )
LEE TAE JUN ( Tchung Moo kwan )
KIM YONG JIN ( Eul Ji kwan ) / HAN HOK BONG et NA IN DONG ( Il Moo Kwan )
KIM YONG HWAN , HO DAL JUN , KIM HOO TAK ( Kuk Sool Kwan )
LEE DONG KU , KIM JONG TAEK , CHAE YONG DOO ( Sim Moo Kwan ) / LEE HAN TCHOL ( Kuk sool Won )
HONG SEUNG KIL ( Soo Do Kwan ) KIM MOO JIN
HAN BONG SU , HIM YON SU , LEE TCHONG ( Kyae Song Kwan )
TCHAE SAE HO , HWANG JONG KIL , HO TCHONG SOO , LEE JOO BANG ( Hwa Lang Do )
JONG WON SON , JANG JIN IL , CHO SEUNG HO
KIM MYONG YONG ( Jin Jung Kwan ) LEE CHANG SOO
KIM DUK IN ( Duk Moo Kwan ) SO MYONG IL
KIM YUN SANG , LEE YONG SOO ( Yong Sul Kwan ) SIN DONG KI , LEE DONG HOO
KIM YUN BAE , HAN SEUNG LYONG , KIM YU
YOO BYONG DON ( Kuk Sul Kwan )
SONG YONG KI ( Han Moo kwan )
JIN JONG MOON ( Heuk Choo kwan )
LEE HO IL ( Yon Moo Kwan )
KIM NAM JAE ( Kyong Moo Kwan )