[
Aqui hay unos enlaces a sitios que tratan el tema de la lucha europea y la esgrima antigua:
Ranggeln, lucha antigua Austriaca, el video es bastante demostrativo.
http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.film.f/f114a
Lucha Germana, son escaneados de manuales de la epoca:
http://www.thehaca.com/pdf/Wurm/Wurm.htm
De aamm occidentales en general, el sitio de thehaca, es uno de los mejores.
http://www.ejmas.com trata de estudios, tecnicas y otras cosillas, pero igual se puede encontrar material europeo antiguo.
Y mas cercano a nuestros dias, la lucha libre, claro que la mas enfocada al combate que al espectaculo, el catch, pressing, etc.
http://www.shorinji.org/eindex.htm
http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/sthlm-sodra/
http://ro2v.free.fr/
http://www.iespana.es/kick-boxing-catalunya
http://www.worldkickboxingnetwork.com
http://www.k-1spain.com
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/tenchi.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/byakuren.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/houkei.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/shuuteki.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/shuuren.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/randori.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/kumienbu.wmv
http://www8.plala.or.jp/shorinji/us/nakamatachi.wmv
Especial atención a esta técnica:
http://homepage1.nifty.com/shorinji/VTR/bukotng.wmv
En un mundo com el de hoy en dia, en que las armas de fuego proliferan a tal ritmo... las artes marciales no tienen cabida. ¿Que será de ellas sin la tradición marcada por los estilos?
Considero perfectamente válido los torneos al estilo Vale-tudo, etc. pero siempre me decantaré más hacia un kumite bien realizado a la hora de observar.
El hecho de que estilos tradicionales sean descubiertos de debajo de las piedras en estos ultimos años, no es sinó un intento de sobrevivir en un mundo globalizador como el de hoy en dia
[quote="Marco A."]Casi la totalidad de las artes marciales predican que, bajo sus enseñanzas, una persona débil puede derrotar a un oponente con mayor fortaleza.
[quote="Marco A."]Casi la totalidad de las artes marciales predican que, bajo sus enseñanzas, una persona débil puede derrotar a un oponente con mayor fortaleza.
Efectivamente se trata de uno de los mitos fundacionales......Y creo que en esto tiene mucho que ver la historia de algunos grandes maestros. Draeger describe que a finales del siglo XX y principios del XX algunos grandes maestros okinawenses adquirieron notoriedad por ser capaces de vencer a boxeadores y luchadores europeos que se paseaban por sus fiestas inflando a golpes al personal en desafios públicos por dinero...la diferencia era grande y lo noticioso es que estos "hombrecillos" que es como consideraban las mentes coloniales de este periodo a los asiaticos fueran capaces de vencer a alguien fisicamente más poderoso. Esta perplejidad del agresor europeo se ve también en el caso de Ueshiba y Nakayama...hombrecillos capaces de obrar el prodigio de vencer a PM ocupante american en desafios..Tres PM en el caso de Nakayama....Oyama se hizo famoso aporreando a marinos USA que molestaban a las chicas niponas......Es decir la leyenda se basa en un factor sorpresa ante un resultado inesperado.....Ahora todo el mundo está familiarizado con el arsenal marcial y las ventajas se relativizan....La ventaja es relativa pero mejor que nada en casos de gente inexperta...A igual técnica gana el más fuerte......Y los más poderosos tienen siempre ventaja en la medida en la que no se enfrentan con superdotados.....
Resulta impensable imaginar un samurai del siglo XVI que no practicase la totalidad de sus técnica a pleno contacto y con filos reales. Su vida y al de otros dependían de ello y uno no se podía andar con medias tintas. Y quien dice un samurai, dice un caballero medieval o cualquier otra clase de guerrero de cualquier época.
Falacia brutal......Primero la efectivida tiene que ver en este caso en que se tratan de técnicas guerreras...Al servicio de una casta guerrera a la que no guardo ningún respeto.....Sólo hay que ver las peliculas de Kurosawa para ver como trataban los samurais al pueblos llano....CASTA GUERRERA profesionales de la violencia.....En el negocio de la guerra la falta de efectividad se paga caro....Por cierto volviendo al enfrentamiento entre MEIJI y Shogunato o el que se dio en Europa entre Ejercito revolucionario NACIONAL y fuerzas del Antiguo Regimen en Francia...EJERCITO NACIONAL contra CASTA guerrera....Y la esgrima tambíen era patrimonio y herramienta para la defensa de un orden injusto...La armas democratizaron el panorama hay que irse muy atras hasta el siglo XVI o ha situaciones cuasi medievales para demostrar el valor guerrero/militar de las artes marciales....Atentos al Ultimo Samurai que describe un hecho histórico importante el Japon Meiji formó un ejercito moderno con muchísimos miembros de extracción popular. Su formación corrió a cargo de instructores occidentales muchos prusianos...Y este ejercito venció a las fuerzas del Shogunato....Desquite de los hijos de los campesinos contra los perros de sus antiguos señores....Les corrieron a tiros mostrando que la potencia de fuego era un más efectiva que las Artes Guerreras de los samurais.....De hecho fueron los ingleses y los franceses los que formaron los grandes imperios del Siglo XIX. Tras la victoria Meiji los samurais se disuelven como clase social/casta guerrera…y se les da la oportunidad de servir al nuevo régimen o largarse. Cosa que algunos hicieron y se fueron al Imperio delmomento England y por ello se conservan allí variantes del Ju-Jutsu antiguo……..
Las artes marciales no hubieran llegado hasta nuestros días si no se hubieran mostrado eficaces en el campo de batalla. ...
Nihon Kosen Judo
Kosen judo is a form of judo adopted by the major high schools and technical schools during the Meji Era (1868 – 1914). It emphasizes newaza (ground techniques) such as controls, joint locks and strangles. This is the style of judo that was taught to the Gracies in Brazil.
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/htm ... ct608.html ojalá tuviera un DVD multiregion XD
Cita:
=============
What is Kosen Judo? A number of things. Kosen Judo is a form of Judo practiced in many of the universities in Japan which is very newaza (groundwork) oriented. They practice throws and takedowns like all Judoka, but in both training and shiai (competition) they spend about 90% of the time in newaza, and standups are much less frequent.
=================
In 1914, the All Japan Special High School championships were started at Kyoto Imperial University. These championships emphasized the trend toward newaza or grappling techniques, and the schools that participated became so proficient at this approach that they earned for it the name "Kosen Judo" or grappling Judo. This form of Judo was becoming so predominant that by 1925 Kano began to see throwing techniques as disappearing from the syllabus of effective Judo skills. Judo rules were changed to specifically require that all techniques had to begin from a tachi waza or standing throwing technique, and that further, if a competitor pulled his opponent down without such an effort, the opponent would be declared the automatic winner. However, Kano understood the proficiency of Kosen Judo, and saw a need for specialists to be encouraged in its development, and so the Seven Universities Tournament, which continues in Japan to this day, has been exempt from this 1925 Kodokan rule change. The Kosen Judo students represented an elite, and it was considered shameful to tap or declare maitta, surrender. A choke or an armbar would have to continue to its inevitable conclusion. (3) Those modern derivatives of Judo, Gracie Ju Jitsu and Sambo, show the effect of both this technical approach and attitude, which is not remarkable since the founding instructors of both styles learned Judo during this pre-1925 period.
Poned aqui lo que sepais y si en algun sitio en España se puede practicar.
_________________
"La noche eterna sin sueños... vacio... ese es... el verdadero terror" Panzer Dragoon Orta
Volver arriba
Además, me parecería innecesario el limitar las artes marciales a su faceta de defensa personal. Hoy en día, en la sociedad que vivimos, la violencia no es algo habitual. Por lo que sería una memez el considerar a los artistas marciales como unos auténticos guerreros (siempre hay excepciones, eh?). Ante todo porque el camino del guerrero es el camino de la muerte, y sinceramente, yo no acepto la muerte como piedra angular de mi vida, hay cosas demasiado bellas como para consagrar tu vida al estudio de la violencia. (Marco A.
Forero Nuevo).
Otro punto necesario para un buen luchador sería la formación de un instinto asesino capaz de explotar a voluntad propia (y de desconectar igualmente). Lo cual es difícil de conseguir practicando con los actuales sistemas éticos de muchas artes. ¿Creéis que una persona normal puede conseguir pulir su instinto asesino sin necesidad de acudir a enfrentamientos reales? (Marco A.
Forero Nuevo).
Y las artes marciales pasan a un espacio más personal, más propio de clases medias y se especializan en la la autodefensa.
Frente a esa realidad termina lo marcial y nacen las AAMM.
Podemos revisar los mitos fundacionales de las artes marciales y separar a los hombres y sus hazañas reales de sus leyendas?.
_________________
e Rising Son
Louisvillian wins in All Japan Open karate
By C. RAY HALL
chall@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal
BY MICHAEL HAYMAN, THE C-J
"It felt like a dream. I cried like a baby as soon as it was over. I started bawling. I just couldn't believe it. … It felt like the end of 'Rudy.' No matter how many times you watch it, if you have a soul, you cry at the end of 'Rudy.'"
–U of L sophomore Brent Weedman on winning the heavyweight title at the All Japan Open full-contact karate championships
COURTESY OF BILL WEEDMAN
Brent Weedman, flanked by his father, Bill, stood with other champions following the competition earlier this month in Osaka, Japan. Brent became the first foreigner to win a title in tournament history.
(no title)
(no title)
(no title)
(no title)
(no title)
All Top Jobs
About Top Jobs
Brent Weedman, a 19-year-old University of Louisville sophomore, could outwrestle his mother when he was 16 months old.
He also can break a baseball bat with his shin. The usefulness of this skill may not be readily apparent. But it came in handy when the 6-foot, 205-pound Weedman engaged softer targets — human sinew and psyches — in Osaka, Japan, earlier this month.
He did something no American had done: He won the heavyweight title in the All Japan Open full-contact karate championships. In one day, he dispatched five opponents in matches that lasted from 11/2-4 minutes. He did this despite suffering a broken nose in his first match.
He became the first foreigner to win a title in tournament history.
"It felt like a dream," he said. "I cried like a baby as soon as it was over. I started bawling. I just couldn't believe it. ... It felt like the end of `Rudy.' No matter how many times you watch it, if you have a soul, you cry at the end of `Rudy.'"
At the party that night, he must have felt like Rudy Valentino.
"Now I finally know what it's like to be a famous basketball player in America, because people worship the ground you walk on," he said. "I would walk by groups of people in this party... everybody from young kids to high school- (and) college-age girls coming to me in flocks, wanting pictures with me, wanting me to flex and feel my arms. It was outrageous."
For Sylvain Guintard, a French journalist who writes about martial arts, Weedman's victory signaled the beginning of an era.
"Brent is a dynamic example to all non-Japanese fighters over the world," Guintard said. "The Japanese supremacy is over."
Weedman, a graduate of Christian Academy, has been practicing byakuren (be-AK-uh-ren) karate since he was 4 years old. He teaches with his father, Bill, who started the Louisville Byakuren Karate school in 1989. The 40 or so students include Brent's 15-year-old brother, Daniel.
Bill has been a police officer 26 years. He is a major in the Louisville Metro Police Department. He got into police work, oddly enough, because of a fight. When he was Brent's age, Bill worked at a Kroger store. He helped a police officer subdue a belligerent shoplifter.
"He was the nicest guy I ever met," Bill says of the officer, who inspired him to go into police work.
Bill became a black belt in jo do kwan, a Korean form of martial arts. But then he encountered byakuren, a full-contact, fighting form of karate, invented 19 years ago by Masayasu Sugihara.
"It means white lotus," Bill said. "I always wondered why you'd name a fighting style after a flower."
He recalls Sugihara's explanation: "In the truest form, a fighter's heart should be like a white lotus. A white lotus flower grows in a filthy, dirty pond, and even though its surroundings are dirty, it itself is very clean and beautiful and pure. And a true fighter is not a corrupt person; their heart should be clean and pure."
Byakuren differs from more traditional forms of karate.
"Other martial arts I've been involved in — and I don't mean this in a derogatory sense — but they're not so much geared to fighting," Bill said. "They're geared to style and technique. So I consider this the apex because... martial arts supposedly is to defend yourself, and that's what this teaches. This is truly a fighting style."
Noted Brent, "A lot of the traditionalists are not real happy with it, because they believe that it's brutal."
Even non-traditionalists — including some of the people closest to Brent — think it's brutal.
One of his grandmothers, Ruth Mitschele, is philosophical. The other, Fran Bettinger, is far less so.
"Every time I go somewhere (to compete), she cries," Brent said. "She's so worried about me every time. She loves me to death. She's just scared for me to get hurt.
"Their fears are justified, to be completely honest. When I talk to people about this, I don't downplay — `Oh, you know, it's perfectly safe; we know what we're doing.' On one hand I do tell my grandmas, `Look, I've done it since I was 4. I'm not really good at a whole lot. I'm all right at this. This is the only thing I've ever done my entire life. So I do know what I'm doing.'
"Now, that being said, I have been knocked unconscious. I have had my nose broken. I have broken toes and fingers and arms and ribs and everything else. It's part of the game. But I would rather — instead of play up how safe it is — I'd rather make sure everybody understands that this is the real deal."
His mom, Peg, won't watch.
"She won't watch me trade shots with anybody — unless she knows I come out all right. Then she'll watch the video," Brent said.
"It's not my idea of a real good time to watch somebody beating on my child," Peg said. "When he fought in France, he got knocked out with a kick to the liver. Seeing my son lifeless on a mat is not something I care to experience."
In byakuren competition, fists to the head are not allowed.
"Punching to the head requires not enough technique," Bill said. "Anybody with a lucky punch can knock you out with a punch to the face."
Kicks to the head — and practically everywhere else — are legal.
"I'd much rather be knocked unconscious with a face shot than a body shot, because if it hurts, it only hurts when you wake up," Brent said.
He was knocked unconscious in Nice, France, where he finished second in a tournament last April.
"I woke up and they were going, `Are you OK? Are you OK?' And it was as if somebody just woke you up off the couch."
Actual knockouts are considered unnecessary and excessive.
"The Japanese consider that a dishonorable win," Bill said. "They feel that you should be able to defeat your opponent without causing injury."
But suffering the equivalent of a technical knockout — being unable to continue because of epic pain — can be more distressing than a clean KO, Brent said.
"Getting knocked out in a body blow hurts a thousand times worse, because you lie there fully conscious, unable to breathe in or out, and you can't move. And all your entire existence, your entire being — your entire place in the universe — is lying there and going, `This is the worst pain I can imagine.'"
He doesn't endure this ecstasy and agony for the glory — there's very little of it, and he has gotten more of a sense of confirmation than celebrity from winning in Japan.
"It's never been a big deal before, so it kind of makes it awkward for people to make a big deal about it now," he said. "But on the other hand, I'm so tired of me saying, `Yeah, I do karate,' and people go, `Oh, yeah, I do karate. I had a triple-degree black belt from Grand Master Jim Bob ... blah blah blah.'"
He certainly doesn't do it for the money.
"I don't fight for money, and I never will. Byakuren is for amateurs. ... It's for people who fight for the love of fighting."
Fifteen years of byakuren training have made practically every part of Weedman's body a potential weapon.
"He's very strong with his knee strikes," his father said. "If he knees you in the liver, even if you guard, he'll hit you in the arm and knock your arm into your liver. And four or five of those, you've had all you can take."
And if you double over in a defensive posture, then he kicks you in the face, with dismaying speed. Either way, it's over.
Brent has been fighting forever, it seems. As a 16-month old, he suffered two crushed fingers in an adventure involving climbing on a desk. Three times a day Peg had to soak his fingers in an antibiotic solution for 20 minutes.
"I could not overpower that child," she said. "I had to give him pain medicine and wait for that to kick in, and it still turned into a 20-minute wrestling match that he won."
Brent followed his father into karate. He also expects to follow him into law enforcement. He's majoring in justice administration.
"So few things seem important compared to saving lives," he said. "What am I going to do? Push a pen and worry about how many cogs Acme Inc., sold?"
Still, even when in school, it's hard for him to put anything before karate.
"I couldn't overexaggerate how much I go through stuff in my head, sitting there writing on a test," he said. "I think what if they kick this way and I countered this way, thinking back on something I could have done different. I could not stop fighting....
"Every aspect of my life dips into this, my Christianity, my school work, my job, my ethics, all of it dips into this, and it fuels all of this....
"This is my life. I have a passion for this."
e Rising Son
Louisvillian wins in All Japan Open karate
By C. RAY HALL
chall@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal
BY MICHAEL HAYMAN, THE C-J
"It felt like a dream. I cried like a baby as soon as it was over. I started bawling. I just couldn't believe it. … It felt like the end of 'Rudy.' No matter how many times you watch it, if you have a soul, you cry at the end of 'Rudy.'"
–U of L sophomore Brent Weedman on winning the heavyweight title at the All Japan Open full-contact karate championships
COURTESY OF BILL WEEDMAN
Brent Weedman, flanked by his father, Bill, stood with other champions following the competition earlier this month in Osaka, Japan. Brent became the first foreigner to win a title in tournament history.
(no title)
(no title)
(no title)
(no title)
(no title)
All Top Jobs
About Top Jobs
Brent Weedman, a 19-year-old University of Louisville sophomore, could outwrestle his mother when he was 16 months old.
He also can break a baseball bat with his shin. The usefulness of this skill may not be readily apparent. But it came in handy when the 6-foot, 205-pound Weedman engaged softer targets — human sinew and psyches — in Osaka, Japan, earlier this month.
He did something no American had done: He won the heavyweight title in the All Japan Open full-contact karate championships. In one day, he dispatched five opponents in matches that lasted from 11/2-4 minutes. He did this despite suffering a broken nose in his first match.
He became the first foreigner to win a title in tournament history.
"It felt like a dream," he said. "I cried like a baby as soon as it was over. I started bawling. I just couldn't believe it. ... It felt like the end of `Rudy.' No matter how many times you watch it, if you have a soul, you cry at the end of `Rudy.'"
At the party that night, he must have felt like Rudy Valentino.
"Now I finally know what it's like to be a famous basketball player in America, because people worship the ground you walk on," he said. "I would walk by groups of people in this party... everybody from young kids to high school- (and) college-age girls coming to me in flocks, wanting pictures with me, wanting me to flex and feel my arms. It was outrageous."
For Sylvain Guintard, a French journalist who writes about martial arts, Weedman's victory signaled the beginning of an era.
"Brent is a dynamic example to all non-Japanese fighters over the world," Guintard said. "The Japanese supremacy is over."
Weedman, a graduate of Christian Academy, has been practicing byakuren (be-AK-uh-ren) karate since he was 4 years old. He teaches with his father, Bill, who started the Louisville Byakuren Karate school in 1989. The 40 or so students include Brent's 15-year-old brother, Daniel.
Bill has been a police officer 26 years. He is a major in the Louisville Metro Police Department. He got into police work, oddly enough, because of a fight. When he was Brent's age, Bill worked at a Kroger store. He helped a police officer subdue a belligerent shoplifter.
"He was the nicest guy I ever met," Bill says of the officer, who inspired him to go into police work.
Bill became a black belt in jo do kwan, a Korean form of martial arts. But then he encountered byakuren, a full-contact, fighting form of karate, invented 19 years ago by Masayasu Sugihara.
"It means white lotus," Bill said. "I always wondered why you'd name a fighting style after a flower."
He recalls Sugihara's explanation: "In the truest form, a fighter's heart should be like a white lotus. A white lotus flower grows in a filthy, dirty pond, and even though its surroundings are dirty, it itself is very clean and beautiful and pure. And a true fighter is not a corrupt person; their heart should be clean and pure."
Byakuren differs from more traditional forms of karate.
"Other martial arts I've been involved in — and I don't mean this in a derogatory sense — but they're not so much geared to fighting," Bill said. "They're geared to style and technique. So I consider this the apex because... martial arts supposedly is to defend yourself, and that's what this teaches. This is truly a fighting style."
Noted Brent, "A lot of the traditionalists are not real happy with it, because they believe that it's brutal."
Even non-traditionalists — including some of the people closest to Brent — think it's brutal.
One of his grandmothers, Ruth Mitschele, is philosophical. The other, Fran Bettinger, is far less so.
"Every time I go somewhere (to compete), she cries," Brent said. "She's so worried about me every time. She loves me to death. She's just scared for me to get hurt.
"Their fears are justified, to be completely honest. When I talk to people about this, I don't downplay — `Oh, you know, it's perfectly safe; we know what we're doing.' On one hand I do tell my grandmas, `Look, I've done it since I was 4. I'm not really good at a whole lot. I'm all right at this. This is the only thing I've ever done my entire life. So I do know what I'm doing.'
"Now, that being said, I have been knocked unconscious. I have had my nose broken. I have broken toes and fingers and arms and ribs and everything else. It's part of the game. But I would rather — instead of play up how safe it is — I'd rather make sure everybody understands that this is the real deal."
His mom, Peg, won't watch.
"She won't watch me trade shots with anybody — unless she knows I come out all right. Then she'll watch the video," Brent said.
"It's not my idea of a real good time to watch somebody beating on my child," Peg said. "When he fought in France, he got knocked out with a kick to the liver. Seeing my son lifeless on a mat is not something I care to experience."
In byakuren competition, fists to the head are not allowed.
"Punching to the head requires not enough technique," Bill said. "Anybody with a lucky punch can knock you out with a punch to the face."
Kicks to the head — and practically everywhere else — are legal.
"I'd much rather be knocked unconscious with a face shot than a body shot, because if it hurts, it only hurts when you wake up," Brent said.
He was knocked unconscious in Nice, France, where he finished second in a tournament last April.
"I woke up and they were going, `Are you OK? Are you OK?' And it was as if somebody just woke you up off the couch."
Actual knockouts are considered unnecessary and excessive.
"The Japanese consider that a dishonorable win," Bill said. "They feel that you should be able to defeat your opponent without causing injury."
But suffering the equivalent of a technical knockout — being unable to continue because of epic pain — can be more distressing than a clean KO, Brent said.
"Getting knocked out in a body blow hurts a thousand times worse, because you lie there fully conscious, unable to breathe in or out, and you can't move. And all your entire existence, your entire being — your entire place in the universe — is lying there and going, `This is the worst pain I can imagine.'"
He doesn't endure this ecstasy and agony for the glory — there's very little of it, and he has gotten more of a sense of confirmation than celebrity from winning in Japan.
"It's never been a big deal before, so it kind of makes it awkward for people to make a big deal about it now," he said. "But on the other hand, I'm so tired of me saying, `Yeah, I do karate,' and people go, `Oh, yeah, I do karate. I had a triple-degree black belt from Grand Master Jim Bob ... blah blah blah.'"
He certainly doesn't do it for the money.
"I don't fight for money, and I never will. Byakuren is for amateurs. ... It's for people who fight for the love of fighting."
Fifteen years of byakuren training have made practically every part of Weedman's body a potential weapon.
"He's very strong with his knee strikes," his father said. "If he knees you in the liver, even if you guard, he'll hit you in the arm and knock your arm into your liver. And four or five of those, you've had all you can take."
And if you double over in a defensive posture, then he kicks you in the face, with dismaying speed. Either way, it's over.
Brent has been fighting forever, it seems. As a 16-month old, he suffered two crushed fingers in an adventure involving climbing on a desk. Three times a day Peg had to soak his fingers in an antibiotic solution for 20 minutes.
"I could not overpower that child," she said. "I had to give him pain medicine and wait for that to kick in, and it still turned into a 20-minute wrestling match that he won."
Brent followed his father into karate. He also expects to follow him into law enforcement. He's majoring in justice administration.
"So few things seem important compared to saving lives," he said. "What am I going to do? Push a pen and worry about how many cogs Acme Inc., sold?"
Still, even when in school, it's hard for him to put anything before karate.
"I couldn't overexaggerate how much I go through stuff in my head, sitting there writing on a test," he said. "I think what if they kick this way and I countered this way, thinking back on something I could have done different. I could not stop fighting....
"Every aspect of my life dips into this, my Christianity, my school work, my job, my ethics, all of it dips into this, and it fuels all of this....
"This is my life. I have a passion for this."
Seidokan, shidokan
Según mi humilde punto de vista, la concepción de 'arte Marcial' lo que hoy en día entendemos como arte Marcial (no sólo desde un punto de vista) es un debate esteril y carente de cualquier discursión no porque lo diga yo ex catedra, sino porque entramos en una categorización, no exenta de mucha polémica y en donde ciertas personas (entre las que yo me incluyo) podríamos acabar como el rosario de la aurora, por eso no deberíamos entrar a hacer un analisis de que es un Arte marcial sin saber la etimología actual (el concepto que cada cual tiene) de Arte Marcial.
Hombre algun@s consideramos que no es esteril sino clarificador si se hace desde el respeto. Por eso me gusta este foro
Para mi, un arte Marcial (en el amplio sentido de la palabra) es un sistema que prepara física y mentalmente al hombre para la guerra, pero que a la vez no está exenta de una filosofía.
Amigo aquí radica una de las grandes falacias de la tradición AAMM que continuamente recreamos. Esto no tiene sentido en el siglo XXI. Se trata de artes de combate personal radicalmente diferentes de las artes militares que tu bien describes en tu mensaje…La ciencia de la guerra difiere del combate personal propio de duelos y otros formatos (lucha en bares, calle etc) . Por cierto no hay muchas referencias a éxitos militares de gladiadores/luchadores si exceptuamos al “ejercito” de Espartaco…
Además en nuestro siglo y desde el siglo XIX y XX las AAMM pertenecen más al ámbito personal duelo deportivo que al militar……¿Qué parte de la formación de los militares en España y el mundo se dedica a AAMM?¿Qué % del currículum a lo que se denomina en terminología NATO “close quarter combat” o “hand to hand fighting”? Y en el caso de profesionales de la seguridad? En todas ellas bajo…Ha sido así en la II GM y lo es ahora…Muchos mililtares se buscan la vida en las AAMM pero esto no las convierte en artes militares….Yo defiendo que se trata de estilos modernos desarrollados para la clase media y universitaria que se han extendido y felizmente democratizado/vulgarizado eliminando el tufo elitista/clasista/ que tenían las AAMM occidentales y orientales en el pasado. Digo esto porque muchos olvidan que eran instrumentos/ monopolio de una clase y herramienta para ejercer control y violencia por parte de esas clases…Los samurais al igual que los aristócratas europeos que participaban en duelos en el Renacimiento etc tiene en común su desprecio por el vulgo y su tendencia a usar sus artes de caballeros contra ellos…Son estas clases opresoras las que han desarrollado algunos de los sistemas que han pervivido…Se trata de castas de guerreros… Lo mismo con la esgrima …Francis Bacon avanzaba que la vulgarización de la esgrima iba a desaparecer cuando carniceros y agricultores dirimieran sus difererncias en los duelos con el uso de la esgrima…Ciencia de CABALLEROS…..Los cuchillos, tanto etc siempre han sido considerados armas menores propias del vulgo
Al desaparecer las castas con la llegada de las armas de fuego pierden importancia y ganan en popularidad..KANO entendió esto perfectamente y fue capaz de integrar todo ello en el JUDO hecho para el NUEVO JAPON MEIJI y para sus nueva estructura social…. Por cierto una arte mantenido en la periferia del imperio y practicado por campesinos es apoyado, integrado y popularizado como japones. Me refiero al KARATE de las rebeldes islas de OKINAWA
El rescate de las AAMM para el ejercito se dio de mano del Japon Militarista y colonial….Al igual que los nazis impulsaron la esgrima y el boxeo etc…..Pero la formación militar ahora y antes no dedicaba mucho tiempo a close quarter combat Si interesa puedo dar las referencias de especialistas en inglés que se muestran muy críticos con las AAMM como sistemas efectivos…Este autor al igual que DRAEGER menciona que la IIGM y posteriores son el final de la enseñanza personalizada en pequeños grupos y el principio de la masificación en filas donde todos hacen lo mismo…Por cierto los grandes maestros japoneses enseñaban movimientos muy básicos patada y puñetazo frontal….En el caso de los Occidentales JACK DEMPSEY enseñando técnicas básicas de boxeo…
Sobre la II GM cuando formaban a soldados en 6 meses y menos el close quarter combat era residual si exceptuabamos a los las fuerzas especiales (guerrilla etc). Por cierto en los 7 samurais ya uno de los protagonistas dice que la carrera es el arma más importante para un samurai sin caballo (infantería).
teología, por eso he defendido al ultranza muchas veces que no existen Artes Marciales occcidentales (desde mi concepción más pura claro está) pero si que desde hace algún tiempo
No estás muy informado….Hay interesantes referncias sobre los sistemas de lucha del renacimiento y cumplen la definición de AAMM, están básadas en el ideal de caballero y incluyen el componente religioso defender la religión verdadera que por estos pagos solia ser la cristiana versión Iglesia Católica
(que en época clásica serán los Aristoi, los aristócratas dirigentes de las polis, o la influente clase política) tenían un ferreo entrenamiento gimnástico que les preparaba físicamente para la lucha, el combate cuerpo a cuerpo, pero al igual que ocurre en la sociedad actual, esta disciplina Marcial (desde un punto de vista exacto, estas artes para la guerra) se fueron secularizando, con esto quiero decir, lo que antes era de reservado derecho para la aristocracia (aristoi significa los mejores, los oligoi, los pocos) en cuanto va dandose lugar a una democratización (no en todas las polis por igual, y no en las mismas características) estos entrenamientos gimnásticos van entrando en el ámbito de los diferentes juevos pan Helénicos que se van celebrando (los píticos, délficos, olímpicos, etc.....) al cual el pueblo tien acceso y por supuesto el pueblo es parte.
De acuerdo con la diferencia entre arte de combate y militar que haces
Hombre tú idea de democracia es extraña? Estoy de acuerdo en que se populariza pero ser espectador o hoplita no es comparable a ser aristoi y general puestos de casta superior..Los pobres siempre han nutrido los ejercitos de sus señores pero las castas sociales superiores siempre han monopolizado el control de los poder y sus mecanismos…….Eso no es democracia la democracia en el ejercito se da con la revolución francesa y el concepto de ejercito nacional que Napoleón eleva cuando hace trizas a los ejercitos del antiguo Regimen…Lo mismo paso en Japón…..Y se describe en versión sui generis en la película el último Samurai……Y ahí se ve claro que el ejercito japones MEIJI formado por vulgo/campesinos/ Tercer Estado fue capaz de vencer a la casta opresora…Los SAMURAIS. Incluso KANO con su sistema JUDO se preocupo de vencer para integrar en la nueva sociedad a los estilos de Ju-Jitsu en la gran y celebre competición organizada por la POLICIA no el ejercito japones……KANO abre las puertas de su estilo al vulgo y su objetivo es formar ciudadanos nada que ver con los antiguos subditos que eran pasto de los desmanes de la clase opresoras. Por eso se sitúa en las universidades…No en academias militares…
Esta es la realidad histórica contrastada las AAMM son algo moderno dedicado al ámbito de mejora y desarrollo personal, la protección personal y el combate en modalidad duelo y que se desarrolla en el seno de instituciones deportivas y con contactos con las instituciones encargadas de la seguridad pero no son sistemas modernos de gran peso en la ciencia militar contemporanea…Si en temas de seguridad…
Lo de ARTES DE GUERRA es inexacto quizás de enfrentamiento urbano a nivel individual o grupos muy pequeños.
, Soniajoseba lo siento pero me veo incapaz de leer tu post 
eso de unir los anteriores post que has hecho debería estar penado por ley 
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. De todas formas está genial que nos abran los ojos y más aún el que evolucionemos y mejoremos nuestro "arsenal".