Foro de opinión artes marciales, deportes de contacto, musculación, fitness, salud
https://www.hispagimnasios.com/foros/
Me parecen realmente interesante los artículos del BIIO System, sinceramente, y en ciertas cosas estoy de acuerdo, pero creo que este sistema parte de premisas equivocadas.Hola Foreros
Aqui os dejo otro articulo de Claudio Tozzi, extraido de su Long Best Seller.
Espero que os guste.
Otra cosa es la recuperación estructural, que estoy de acuerdo en que puede durar bastante más dias, asi como la recuperacion del Sistema Nervioso, pero en lo que se refiere a la supercompensación, en 48 horas, está completada."Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.Links
The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE.
Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.
It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline"
"J Appl Physiol. 1992 Oct;73(4):1383-8. Links
Changes in human muscle protein synthesis after resistance exercise.
Chesley A, MacDougall JD, Tarnopolsky MA, Atkinson SA, Smith K.
Department of Physical Education, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
The purpose of this study was to investigate the magnitude and time course for changes in muscle protein synthesis (MPS) after a single bout of resistance exercise. Two groups of six male subjects performed heavy resistance exercise with the elbow flexors of one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS from exercised (ex) and control (con) biceps brachii was assessed 4 (group A) and 24 h (group B) postexercise by the increment in L-[1-13C]leucine incorporation into muscle biopsy samples. In addition, RNA capacity and RNA activity were determined to assess whether transcriptional and/or translational processes affected MPS. MPS was significantly elevated in biceps of the ex compared with the con arms of both groups (group A, ex 0.1007 +/- 0.0330 vs. con 0.067 +/- 0.0204%/h; group B ex 0.0944 +/- 0.0363 vs. con 0.0452 +/- 0.0126%/h). RNA capacity was unchanged in the ex biceps of both groups relative to the con biceps, whereas RNA activity was significantly elevated in the ex biceps of both groups (group A, ex 0.19 +/- 0.10 vs. con 0.12 +/- 0.05 micrograms protein.h-1.microgram-1 total RNA; group B, ex 0.18 +/- 0.06 vs. con 0.08 +/- 0.02 micrograms protein.h-1.microgram-1 total RNA). The results indicate that a single bout of heavy resistance exercise can increase biceps MPS for up to 24 h postexercise. In addition, these increases appear to be due to changes in posttranscriptional events."
"Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E99-107.
Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans.
Phillips SM, Tipton KD, Aarsland A, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR.
Metabolism Unit, Shriners Burns Institute, Galveston, Texas, USA.
Mixed muscle protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) and fractional breakdown rate (FBR) were examined after an isolated bout of either concentric or eccentric resistance exercise. Subjects were eight untrained volunteers (4 males, 4 females). Mixed muscle protein FSR and FBR were determined using primed constant infusions of [2H5]phenylalanine and 15N-phenylalanine, respectively. Subjects were studied in the fasted state on four occasions: at rest and 3, 24, and 48 h after a resistance exercise bout. Exercise was eight sets of eight concentric or eccentric repetitions at 80% of each subject's concentric 1 repetition maximum. There was no significant difference between contraction types for either FSR, FBR, or net balance (FSR minus FBR). Exercise resulted in significant increases above rest in muscle FSR at all times: 3 h = 112%, 24 h = 65%, 48 h = 34% (P < 0.01). Muscle FBR was also increased by exercise at 3 h (31%; P < 0.05) and 24 h (18%; P < 0.05) postexercise but returned to resting levels by 48 h. Muscle net balance was significantly increased after exercise at all time points [(in %/h) rest = -0.0573 +/- 0.003 (SE), 3 h = -0.0298 +/- 0.003, 24 h = -0.0413 +/- 0.004, and 48 h = -0.0440 +/- 0.005], and was significantly different from zero at all time points (P < 0.05). There was also a significant correlation between FSR and FBR (r = 0.88, P < 0.001). We conclude that exercise resulted in an increase in muscle net protein balance that persisted for up to 48 h after the exercise bout and was unrelated to the type of muscle contraction performed."
"J Physiol. 2006 Jul 27; [Epub ahead of print]
Resistance exercise increases AMPK activity and reduces 4E-BP1 phosphorylation and protein synthesis in human skeletal muscle.
Dreyer HC, Fujita S, Cadenas JG, Chinkes DL, Volpi E, Rasmussen BB.
University of Texas Medical Branch.
Resistance exercise is a potent stimulator of muscle protein synthesis and
muscle cell growth with the increase in protein synthesis being detected within 2-3 hours post-exercise and remaining elevated for up to 48 hours. However, during exercise muscle protein synthesis is inhibited. An increase in AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) activity has recently been shown to decrease mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signalling to key regulators of translation initiation.
We hypothesized that the cellular mechanism for the inhibition of
muscle protein synthesis during an acute bout of resistance exercise in humans would be associated with an activation of AMPK and an inhibition of downstream components of the mTOR pathway (4E-BP1 and S6K1).
We studied 11 subjects (7 men, 4 women) before, during, and for two hours following a bout of resistance exercise. Muscle biopsies were collected at each time point from the vastus lateralis. We utilized immunoprecipitation and immunoblotting methods to measure muscle AMPKa2 activity, mTOR associated upstream and downstream signalling proteins, and stable isotope techniques to measure muscle fractional protein synthetic rate (FSR).
AMPKa2 activity (pmol*min-1*mg of protein-1) at baseline was 1.7 +/- 0.3, increased immediately post-exercise (3.0 +/- 0.6), and remained elevated at 1h post-exercise (P< 0.05). Muscle FSR decreased during exercise and was significantly increased at 1h and 2h post-exercise (P<0.05). 4E-BP1 phosphorylation at Thr37/46 was significantly reduced immediately post-exercise (P<0.05). We conclude that AMPK activation and a reduced phosphorylation of 4E-BP1 may contribute to the inhibition of muscle protein synthesis during resistance exercise. However, by 1-2h post-exercise muscle protein synthesis increased in association with an activation of PKB, mTOR, S6K1, and eEF2."
Es que yo soy muy educadoPor lo que concierne tus dudas quisiera felicitarme porqué por lo menos aportas tus argumentos a respaldo de tus criticas, cosa que no suelo ver en los foros
.Absolutamente de acuerdo, por eso dije que la recuperación estructural lleva mucho más tiempo y la recuperación del Sistema Nervioso también. Pero salvo que uno haga un volumen muy alto (+20 series) o tenga sus músculos muy desadaptados, porque lleve sin entrenar semanas o meses, no creo que se necesite más de 7 dias para recuperarse. Pero esto es una impresión mía.Dicho esto considero que la sintesis proteica está claro que deba supercompensar en 1 o 2 dias en función de la intensidad del entrenamiento, aunque esto no significa que Yo pueda entrenar Press banca cada 2 dias..
Pero creo que tu exceso de descanso se debe evidentemente a la recuperación del Sistema Nervioso, tal y como ya decía Mentzer y como también sugiere Brian Haycock (creador de HST). Cuando uno entrena al fallo, con ejercicios muy demandantes, tales como los Pesos Muertos o las Sentadillas, el SNC queda totalmente saturado y estresado, y necesita de muchos dias para volver a ser eficiente. Y, claro está, cuanto más peso levantes, más dias necesita. Pero como ya he dicho antes, los músculos están absolutamente preparados en mucho menos tiempo. La síntesis de proteinas habrá obtenido su pico máximo y vuelto a los valores normales en unas 48 horas, máximo 72 si el entrenamiento ha sido de cuádriceps, y la limpieza de residuos orgánicos y células muertas se habrá completado en un máximo de 8-10 dias si el trabajo muscular ha sido muy intenso o de un volumen muy alto. Por lo que entiendo que si no llegas al fallo, el SNC no necesitaría tanto dias de descanso. Otra cosa ya es si se obtendrían mejores o peores resultados.Yo necesito entrenar cada 12 dias cada grupo muscular, de lo contrario empeoro. Mi compañero de entrenami ento tiene el mismo tiempo de recuperac ión, asi como la mayoria de clientes avanzados que entreno. Cuando te digo que empeoramo s es que por ejemplo en las ultimas rutinas que hemos realizado, descansan do 10 dias, yo tenia que hacer 3 repeticio nes e hice solo 1 y mi compañero tenia que hacer 7 e hizo 3, abortamos el entrenami ento, volvimos a repetirlo 3 dias después (13 dias) e hicimos yo 4 repeticio nes y el 8!!
Hay que probar.. yo he probado ambas cosas.. descansar mas y descansar menos.. y adivina con que he mejorado mas...
Estoy de acuerdo, hay gente que piensa que más es mejor, dejando de lado la recuperación. Pero yo hablo de programas "weider" más lógicos para gente media. Es decir, una rutina de 3 dias, en la que el Lunes haces Pecho-Hombro-Triceps, el Miércoles haces Espalda-Biceps y el Viernes entrenas Pierna. Haciendo 8-9 series para grupos musculares grandes y 4-6 para pequeños, con rangos de repeticiones de entre 8-12 y descansando entre 45-90 segundos entre series.En el 2º punto estoy deacuerdo contigo, aunque he visto mucha gente entrenar asi, sigo leyendo revistas que aconsejan entrenar así, sigo escuchando campeones de culturismo que dicen que hay que entrenar asi y sin ir mas lejos.. conozco decenas de personas que se pegan 2 o 3 clases de SPINNNING al dia porque.. "Adelgazas mas"... En fin.. la idea es parar esta mania de creer que
MAs = MEJOR
En el 3º punto no estoy de acuerdo.. Se puede Ganar peso con CUALQUIER PROGRAMA.. lo que es diferente de GANAR MUSCULO...
Si voy al Mc Donald 3 veces al dia.. tambien gano peso.... con 5000 Kcal.. pues.. como no vas a ganarlo... yo hablo de Masa Magra!
