Cuerpo de Bruce Lee

Este foro trata exclusivamente de artes marciales (donde practicarlas, puntos fuertes de cada una, etc.)

Moderadores: moderador suplente, admin

Avatar de Usuario
Sajite
Forero Vicioso
Forero Vicioso
Mensajes: 7501
Registrado: 19 Sep 2002 23:21

Mensaje por Sajite » 21 Ene 2004 18:54

vale antonio :)


ya que estamos cuando hablamos de "potencia" de pegada no tengo yo muy claro si hay relación con el concepto físico de "potencia" en algo más que en la terminología. me gustaría saber si es así por que si no esas formulitas no nos valen pa ná


saludos

Pavel Saenz
Forero Avanzado
Forero Avanzado
Mensajes: 492
Registrado: 15 Oct 2002 17:26
Ubicación: Antartica

Mensaje por Pavel Saenz » 21 Ene 2004 19:05


Sanjuro
Forero Amateur
Forero Amateur
Mensajes: 53
Registrado: 02 Ene 2004 10:29

Mensaje por Sanjuro » 22 Ene 2004 02:05

Agr 1800 dijo:
“El comentario del entrenamiento destructivo no lo entiendo...”

Para mi un entrenamiento que produce lesiones (alguna grave) es un entrenamiento destructivo. Una cosa es que te rompan la nariz o te hagan una luxación en un combate
y otra es que te jodas la espalda levantando pesas, por ejemplo

Asimetría dijo:
“¿Que culpa tubo el de morirse? ¿O preferías la versión peliculera de que la mafia lo asesinó?”

El tipo entrenaba todos los días durante el rodaje de Operación dragón, actuaba y prácticamente no dormía, tuvo un par de ataques durante ese mismo rodaje, ponía la vista perdida y se le iba la olla cuando filmaban las peleas, cuando estaba en casa de una amiga tomó un analgésico que le produjo una inflamación del cerebro :roll: , que finalmente le produjo la muerte, dicen… Mira, el tío seguro que no quería morirse, pero me parece que puso de su parte, yo conocía a un tío al que le pasaban cosas parecidas y no practicaba artes marciales precisamente.
:crazyeyes:

Avatar de Usuario
Maestro Xin Bao Luo
Forero Vicioso
Forero Vicioso
Mensajes: 2158
Registrado: 25 Dic 2003 21:17
Ubicación: Bar de Moe

Mensaje por Maestro Xin Bao Luo » 22 Ene 2004 16:35

Apreciados foreros/as:
y digo yo
a gustos, colores, no? pues si ha alguien le gusta brus li, pues me alegro por el. Y si a alguien no le gusta brus li, pues me alegro por el.
"es que era muy bueno, es que era muy rapido, tanto que la camara no lo captaba, era el rey del kung fu" :o :o :o :o :o
Pero vamos a ver, por que es necesario ensalzar a una persona hasta el nivel de mito para que nos guste?. Yo no se si era bueno o malo, rapido o lento (feo si, que las fotos delatan), por que no lo he conocido, y como yo no estaba alli para verlo, solo puedo limitarme a escuchar por terceras opiniones, y claro, de una a otra la cosa cambia horrores.
A mi personalmente "no me gusta". Lo entrecomillo por que no puedo decir realmente que no me gusta ya que no he tenido el placer/desgracia de haberlo conocido. Pero he visto sus peliculas y lo que hace en las peliculas no me impresiona. Oye, que eso no quiere decir que no sepa, pero es que yo he visto peliculillas donde hacen alguna que otra cabriola mas que la volteretilla que hace brus li en operacion dragon. Que conste que eso no le quita merito.
pero tampoco se lo da.
Vamos, que si las niñas estan locas por el bisbal y el bustamante, eso no los vuelve los mejores cantantes del mundo mundial (c**o, me salio la vena manolito gafotas).
Que cada uno adopte a sus ejemplos a seguir, pero por favor, sin llegar al extremismo. Nosotros vivimos nuestras vidas POR NOSOTROS MISMOS, no para llegar a ser como.
Por que si yo tuviera que matar para ser como el dalai lama, mi heroe particular, que esta luchando por todo un pueblo sin soltar ni una bofetada y sin saber artes marciales (frikis que practiquen el arte marcial tibetano, abstenerse de hacer comentarios), pues como que el hombre no se sentiria muy bien por lo que estoy haciendo.
Respeto, tolerancia y comprension, es lo que necesitamos, al marjen de que alguien sepa o no sepa.
atentamente

Avatar de Usuario
Maestro Xin Bao Luo
Forero Vicioso
Forero Vicioso
Mensajes: 2158
Registrado: 25 Dic 2003 21:17
Ubicación: Bar de Moe

Mensaje por Maestro Xin Bao Luo » 22 Ene 2004 16:37

marjen con jota.....
esto no es para que el dalai lama se enfade....
esto es para que mi profesor de gramatica de 2 de egb me corte las pelotas directamente....
lo siento.... :oops: :oops: :oops:

Avatar de Usuario
DAMARPO
Forero Vicioso
Forero Vicioso
Mensajes: 9504
Registrado: 18 Sep 2002 03:17

Mensaje por DAMARPO » 23 Ene 2004 11:54

cuando estaba en casa de una amiga tomó un analgésico que le produjo una inflamación del cerebro , que finalmente le produjo la muerte, dicen…
eso eso, dicen.......
Mira, el tío seguro que no quería morirse, pero me parece que puso de su parte, yo conocía a un tío al que le pasaban cosas parecidas y no practicaba artes marciales precisamente.
si, miles de ellos, epilepticos, narcolepticos, catalepticos......todos sufren ataques de diferente magnitud e intensidad......
tomó un analgésico que le produjo una inflamación del cerebro
mmmmmmm.....amoave, toma el analgesico y a consecuencia se le inflama la procion x del cerebro, o, una reaccion a un compuesto quimico existente en algun medicamento, produjo una escleorizacion (uufffff) de un vaso sanguineo del mismo??.

eso es relevante??no. solo añade leyenda al mito ergo lo convierte en mas mito entavia.

saludetes!!!!

Sanjuro
Forero Amateur
Forero Amateur
Mensajes: 53
Registrado: 02 Ene 2004 10:29

Mensaje por Sanjuro » 24 Ene 2004 03:16

Y lo de entrenar y trabajar sin apenas dormir ¿que enfermedad es? :wink: el tema me interesa, porque acabo de dejar a unos conocidos
que la padecen, empalmarán con el sábado y el domingo lo más seguro, yo en cambio como soy un tipo sano, ya no aguanto ni un minuto más en pie, me voy a la cama, buenas noches.

Sleyer
Forero Avanzado
Forero Avanzado
Mensajes: 510
Registrado: 20 Ene 2004 15:17

Mensaje por Sleyer » 24 Ene 2004 22:02

[quote="Kenpo"]
Es cierto q bruce no gano un solo combate

Bruce habiendo hecho decenas de combates, no perdió uno solo (simplesmente no salió en la tele).

Einherjar
Forero Vicioso
Forero Vicioso
Mensajes: 1907
Registrado: 23 Sep 2002 08:07

Mensaje por Einherjar » 24 Ene 2004 23:00

Bruce habiendo hecho decenas de combates, no perdió uno solo (simplesmente no salió en la tele).

a) Sin pruebas OBJETIVAS que lo demuestren, no hay absolutamente nada de cierto en ello.

b) Ningún mérito tendría haber derrotado a docenas de oponentes de escaso nivel.

c) No hay constancia de que Lee se enfrentase a nadie de relevancia (campeones mundiales de Boxeo, Judo, Lucha Libre, Muay Thai, los Gracie, etc...), así que su habilidad en el combate es tan sólo una especulación.

Personalmente, pienso que Lee era un magnífico artista marcial, extremadamente veloz, moderadamente fuerte y con bastantes lagunas técnicas (aunque perfectamente comprensibles para aquellos tiempos). Ahora bien, de ahí a pensar que habría podido derrotar a los mejores del mundo en su peso, media un abismo.

Lo cual no deja de ser otra pura especulación por mi parte, ya que nadie (ni los partidarios de Lee ni sus detractores) pueden saber a ciencia cierta el resultado de estos hipotéticos combates.

Sleyer
Forero Avanzado
Forero Avanzado
Mensajes: 510
Registrado: 20 Ene 2004 15:17

Mensaje por Sleyer » 17 Feb 2004 15:19

Pavel Saenz escribió:Un interesante articulo que analiza científicamente sus capacidades físicas, muchos mitos se desploman y se aclaran algunas otras cosas tambien.

"Bruce Lee: Best of the Best?"
by Christopher D. Hess, SMAC

(Posted 1/13/98)

"Be aware that a halo has to fall only a few inches to be a noose."


--Dan McKinnon

Introduction

Bruce Lee is the personality most associated with the martial arts. Both
martial art enthusiasts and non-practioners consider the deceased actor as the
ultimate martial artist. Although he did not compete in tournaments or submit
to any empirical conventions wherein his ability could be objectively
assessed, he is frequently referred to as a superior athlete and the strongest
fighter "pound for pound." A close examination of his exercise regime and
personal character reveal a committed athlete and martial artist but not to
the mythic proportions usually ascribed to him. This article will review
Lee's physical strength, aerobic capacity, and individual character to assess
whether he should be considered the "best of the best".






I. Physical strength. Numerous persons have stated that Bruce Lee possessed
an incredible amount of strength. Based on his exercise program, it appears
he was of below-average lower body strength. According to the strength
training program Lee used during 1965 (Lee, 1989), he performed squats using
95 pounds with 10 repetitions. This would equate to an estimated 1 repetition
maximum (1RM) of 130 pounds (Wathen, 1994), which would place him below the
25th percentile for the 121-140 pound weight class among adult males
(Hatfield, 1993).






This type of estimation for the 1 repetition maximum is standard among
athletic trainers to assess the strength level of a wide range of athletes,
both professional and amateur.While some chart estimates may vary slightly
from one to another, most are within approximately 10% of one another.






Some readers, who are accustomed to viewing Lee as possessing epic strength,
may assert that Lee probably was not using his maximum ability at that time.
It is therefore noted that this regime occurred prior to Lee's well-known back
injury. Furthermore, if Lee was capable of performing the squat exercise with
more than 95 pounds for 10 repetitions, one must question why this was part of
his established routine or, alternatively, why he would be committing himself
to a method of underachievement by using too low an amount of weight to
stimulate the greatest strength gains possible.






To further demonstrate this below-average lower body strength, the estimated
130 pound maximum estimate would mean Lee was not prepared for plyometric
training (a type of explosiveness exercise) which requires the ability to
squat a minimum of 1.5 times the body weight (Allerheiligen, 1994).In other
words, at an approximate body weight of 140 pounds, Lee would need to have
squatted 210 pounds to engage in plyometric training based on recognized
standards for training of athletes by today's standards.






Lee's upper body strength is another matter altogether and, when understood
from a sport science perspective, partially explains his on-screen appeal.
Once again, according to the program used during his 1965 stay in Hong Kong,
Lee performed bicep curls using a weight of 80 pounds and 8 repetitions. This
would equate to an estimated 1 repetition maximum of 110 pounds and would
place him in the 100th percentile for the 121-140 pound weight class.From a
training perspective, one must question how a discrepancy of this proportion,
between his upper and lower body strength, evolved in Lee's training.
Nevertheless, it demonstrates that his upper body strength was developed to
its maximum potential.






Numerous observers of Bruce Lee, such as deceased Kenpo master Ed Parker,
have stated Lee was perhaps the strongest "pound for pound" martial artist.
Sport science can confirm this possibility. Numerous assessments of athletes
throughout the past few decades have confirmed that smaller athletes are
proportionately stronger than larger ones.This is due to the fact that a
muscle's maximum contractile force is proportional to its cross-sectional
area.In laymen's terms, this means that a smaller athlete has a higher
strength to mass ratio than larger athletes.






Stated practically, as body size increases, body mass increases more rapidly
than does muscle strength. In a colloquial sense, it could be said this is
similar to the "law of diminishing returns." Certain martial art film stars
such as Jean Claude Van Damme and Jeff Speakman may look better due to their
mass, but their actual strength, in proportion to body weight, would be less
than a relatively light person such as Lee.Incredible speed is inherent to
superior strength at a low body weight.






Since Lee never weighed more than 143 pounds yet possessed superior upper
body strength in the 100th percentile, this would account for the lightening
speed he demonstrated on film. With more mass, he would not have been as fast
and would not have appeared so on film.






II. Aerobic capacity. Lee was known to advocate running as the best
cardiovascular exercise (Lee, 1975) and is reported to have run 2 miles in 15
minutes or 6 miles in 45 minutes (Storm, 1986; Lee, 1989).In either case,
this would mean an approximate pace of a 7 minute 30 second mile. This pace
equates to a VO2 max of approximately 50 ml/kg/min (Noakes, 1991). The VO2
max is a method employed by sport scientists to estimate an individual's
maximum capacity to use oxygen during extended exercise.






The average VO2 max among healthy young men is between 45 and 55. Lee's
estimated value of 50, based on his running times, would place him squarely in
the middle of average healthy young men. The values among elite runners and
cross-country skiers is usually a range between 75 and 85 ml/kg/min. In other
words, Lee's aerobic capacity was quite average. Once again, certain readers
who are accustomed to viewing Lee in epic proportions may assert that Lee was
not running his fastest and was capable of more. Considering his personality,
if this were true it arguably would have been publicized somewhere.






In contrast to Lee's estimated aerobic capacity, a Canadian research study
published in 1995 demonstrates that elite kickboxers possess a VO2 max of 62
(Zabukovec and Tiidus, 1995). In controlled laboratory measurements, elite
kickboxers had recorded values of aerobic capacity that are comparable to a
person who runs a 4:45 mile, or a 34 minute 10k foot race. It is a curious
notion, therefore, that Lee was considered to be an aerobic phenomenon.
Current elite kickboxing competitors register higher aerobic capacity than did
Bruce Lee.






III.Personal Character. The great karate master Gichin Funakoshi stated that
martial artists should show great concern for family and relationships. "The
mind of the true karateka should be imbued with (family) concern before he
turns his attention to his body and the refinement of his technique"
(Funakoshi, 1975).






In contrast, Lee is reported to have been involved in several extramarital
affairs and, in fact, died in the apartment of a woman with whom he has
intimately involved (Beeckler, 1996).






Lee also died without a will (intestate) which left his widow with almost a
decade of legal battles to settle the matter of his estate. While some may
argue that his early, unanticipated, death would have precluded finalizing a
will, Lee was conscious enough of his own mortality that he purchased
significant amounts of life insurance just months prior to his death.






And while Funakoshi admonishes martial artists to render honor to their
families before refining themselves, when Bruce Lee did refine himself
physically it was not in a wholly honorable fashion. In addition to the
prescription medications Cortisone and Dilantin, he is also reported to have
used anabolic steroids and diuretics to achieve his physique (Beeckler, 1996).
It is also documented that he was a user of marijuana during the final three
years of his life and it was discovered in his body during the autopsy.






Why the Best of the Best?






Bruce Lee did not compete in any sanctioned martial art events. He compiled
no tournament record to demonstrate his ability as did other superstars of
his generation such as Bill Wallace, Chuck Norris, Bob Wall or Mike Stone.
Various anecdotes are reported regarding his superiority in street fights but
is that a basis of considering anyone the best of the best in their respective
sport or physical activity? Would the American public accept this reasoning
if Pete Sampras said he was the best tennis player but refused to compete in
Wimbledon? Or if Michael Jordan claimed to be the best basketball player but
would only play in alleys and playgrounds, never on the professional hardwood
court?






Today's martial athletes can demonstrate their abilities in an empirical
manner. For example, the IMPAX instrument records the total of punches and
kicks delivered in a certain period of time and the total force of a strike or
kick. The elite kick boxers surveyed in the earlier referenced study were
objectively assessed regarding their aerobic and anaerobic capacity as well as
maximum knee torque. In other words, the tools exist today to determine who
is the best of the best among martial artists. For better or worse, Lee
escaped objective evaluation.






It's tremendously subjective but Bruce Lee is arguably considered the most
noteworthy martial artist due to his magnetism on film. Regardless of any
opinion about his actual martial art talent, or lack of empirical
demonstration regarding his ability, he expressed himself on the screen in a
manner that no martial artist has equaled. And, by combining his upper body
strength and light body weight, he possessed uncanny speed that visually made
believers of anyone who saw him in action.






Reassessing the Usefulness of the Bruce Lee Myth






In one sense, Lee is forever a tremendous asset to the martial art community
as his image and myth draws people to the arts. These fledgling martial
artists may then be retained for more noble and enduring reasons than a
desire to emulate someone whose example is questionable upon closer
examination.






Once a martial artist reviews the reality of Lee's strength, aerobic capacity
and personal character, a sober question must be addressed: should Lee's
myth be actively deconstructed among novice martial artists? Perhaps not.
That may be a function of maturity and be better emphasized in the later
stages of training and spiritual development within the arts. Instead, people
need a visual image to connect to and, until they begin to see their own
selves in growing competency, may need the myth of Bruce Lee to sustain their
training efforts.






References






Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. Ohara Publications, California. (70)






Wathen, Dan (1994). Load Assignment. In Essentials of Strength Training and
Conditioning. Human Kinetics, Illinois. (436)






Hatfield, Fredrick C., Ph. D. (1993). Fitness: The Complete Guide.
International Sport Sciences Association, California. (119) .






Allerheiligen, William B. (1994). Speed Development and Plyometric Training.
In Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics,
Illinois. (321)






Lee, Bruce (1975). Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Ohara, Burbank, California. ( )






Storm, Mitch; Black Belt Magazine, The Editors (1986). The Legendary Bruce
Lee. Ohara, Burbank, CA. (53)






Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. Ohara Publications, California. (54)

Noakes, Timothy, M.D. (1991). The Lore of Running. Leisure Press, Champaign,
Illinois. (42)






Tiidus, Peter M.; Zabukovec, Randy (1995). "Physiological and Anthropometric
Profile of Elite Kickboxers". Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research,
(November) 240-242.






Funakoshi, Gichin (1975). Karate-Do: My Way of Life. Kodansha International,
Tokyo, Japan. (102)






Beeckler, Tom (1996). Unsettled Matters: The Life and Death of Bruce Lee.
Gilderoy Publications, Lompoc, California. (144; 182)






ABOUT THE AUTHOR: In addition to the martial arts, Mr. Hess is a licensed cycling coach who regularly
works with successful endurance athletes with tiny vertical jumps. He is the author of Total Quality Martial Arts:
Pathways to Continuous Improvement

Yo no entiendo ni J de ingles, donde podría encontrar ese testo traducido?

Jordi V.
Forero Vicioso
Forero Vicioso
Mensajes: 1707
Registrado: 14 Dic 2002 23:10

Mensaje por Jordi V. » 17 Feb 2004 15:53

:o ¿No entiendes nada del artículo?

Entonces ¿Por que lo has vuelto a pegar enterito?

¿Ein?

:lol:

Avatar de Usuario
admin
Administrador
Administrador
Mensajes: 7834
Registrado: 19 Jul 2001 02:00
Contactar:

Mensaje por admin » 17 Feb 2004 16:18

Con el link al mensaje original bastaba :o

Bushido_warrior
Forero Activo
Forero Activo
Mensajes: 181
Registrado: 02 Jul 2003 18:36
Ubicación: Valencia

Mensaje por Bushido_warrior » 17 Feb 2004 17:05

Yo soy bastante "fan" de Bruce Lee. Pero ya no por sus tecnicas de pelea, dejemos a un lado que sea bueno o malo. Su manera de pensarcontra la mentalidad tradicional de los artistas marciaes de entonces fue un puntazo. Y yo no lo habre visto pelear, y vale, las declaraciones de sus alumnos no valen, pero... ¿las de bill wallace, dominique valera, joe lewis, urquidez... tampoco valen? No se. Esta claro k no volaba ni tiraba rayos por los ojos,pero tampoco hay qe decir k er auna patata. Saludos

Rembukai
Forero Iniciado
Forero Iniciado
Mensajes: 66
Registrado: 05 Sep 2003 23:39

Mensaje por Rembukai » 17 Feb 2004 22:28

David A. muuuuuuuu ingeniosa tu contestación jajjjajaaja
Oye Einherjar eres mi dios tiu, en serio de mayor quiero ser como tú...
jajjajaajaj, que manera de expresarse, de contestar, de meterlas dobladas.... BUF!!!! cuanto tengo que aprender tiu.... :lol!:
jajajjajajaj Un saludo (joer como da juego este post...)

:D :D :D


PD:joer si esque a mi lo de hacerse los "canutos" con la revista del dojo.....me rompió

Aish...!!!!como me mola este foro xDDDD :silly: :silly:

Avatar de Usuario
Mad
Forero Adicto
Forero Adicto
Mensajes: 966
Registrado: 29 Ago 2003 00:24
Ubicación: Sin Bandera

Mensaje por Mad » 18 Feb 2004 09:18

ah pero Bruce Lee ha muerto?

Responder