¿cuál creéis que es la mejor combinacion?
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grim
¿cuál creéis que es la mejor combinacion?
- Boxeo, Muay Thai, San Shou, Kyokushinkai o Wing Tsun como artes de percusión.
- Brazilian Ju Jutsu, Judo, Ju Jutsu Tradicional, Lucha Libre o Sambo como disciplinas de 'grappling'.
- Kali, Arnis o Eskrima como complemento para saber manejar y defender contra armas.
- Boxeo, Muay Thai, San Shou, Kyokushinkai o Wing Tsun como artes de percusión.
- Brazilian Ju Jutsu, Judo, Ju Jutsu Tradicional, Lucha Libre o Sambo como disciplinas de 'grappling'.
- Kali, Arnis o Eskrima como complemento para saber manejar y defender contra armas.
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patowc
Yo si pudiera hacer otro arte marcial combinaría taekwondo con Hapkido, como lo hace Josepbcn.
De hecho en mi gimnasio ya lo combinamos un poco con algunas técnicas, aúnque la mayor parte del tiempo hacemos taekwondo. Creo que el Hapkido se puede combinar tanto con cualquier arte marcial de golpeo, porque además de incluir muchas cosas nuevas utiliza también el golpeo, aprovechando lo que ya sabes.
De hecho en mi gimnasio ya lo combinamos un poco con algunas técnicas, aúnque la mayor parte del tiempo hacemos taekwondo. Creo que el Hapkido se puede combinar tanto con cualquier arte marcial de golpeo, porque además de incluir muchas cosas nuevas utiliza también el golpeo, aprovechando lo que ya sabes.
Hola
Bueno yo barrere para casa:
- Choy Li Fut como arte de percusión (aunque no me guste el nombre)
- Choy Li Fut como arte de manejo de armas.
Si luego después de tiempo consideras que el entrenamiento recibido en Chi Na (agarre y luxación) no te es suficiente, podrías buscar un arte que este centrado en el trabajo de suelo, y ahí es donde no puedo indicar uno u otro porque admito mi desconocimiento en profundidad de dichos artes; creo que en este apartado el consejo de Einherjar (que parece tener bastante experiencia) es el más adecuado.
De todas formas como siempre se comenta, la pregunta no me parece la más correcta, no se debería de pensar tanto en estilos como en Maestros (o profesores) que te puedan enseñar el Arte.
No todos los Maestros de Choy Li Fut te podrán enseñar realmente el Arte Marcial con mayúscula, y lo mismo con el resto de artes marciales.
Un saludo.
Bueno yo barrere para casa:
- Choy Li Fut como arte de percusión (aunque no me guste el nombre)
- Choy Li Fut como arte de manejo de armas.
Si luego después de tiempo consideras que el entrenamiento recibido en Chi Na (agarre y luxación) no te es suficiente, podrías buscar un arte que este centrado en el trabajo de suelo, y ahí es donde no puedo indicar uno u otro porque admito mi desconocimiento en profundidad de dichos artes; creo que en este apartado el consejo de Einherjar (que parece tener bastante experiencia) es el más adecuado.
De todas formas como siempre se comenta, la pregunta no me parece la más correcta, no se debería de pensar tanto en estilos como en Maestros (o profesores) que te puedan enseñar el Arte.
No todos los Maestros de Choy Li Fut te podrán enseñar realmente el Arte Marcial con mayúscula, y lo mismo con el resto de artes marciales.
Un saludo.
Si luego después de tiempo consideras que el entrenamiento recibido en Chi Na (agarre y luxación) no te es suficiente, podrías buscar un arte que este centrado en el trabajo de suelo, y ahí es donde no puedo indicar uno u otro porque admito mi desconocimiento en profundidad de dichos artes; creo que en este apartado el consejo de Einherjar (que parece tener bastante experiencia) es el más adecuado.
Hombre, sin salirnos de estilos propiamente chinos y mucho más acordes con el ritmo y la filosofía del Choy Li Fut, encontramos el Shuai Chiao.
*** LADRILLO VA ***
Hombre, sin salirnos de estilos propiamente chinos y mucho más acordes con el ritmo y la filosofía del Choy Li Fut, encontramos el Shuai Chiao.
*** LADRILLO VA ***
What is Shuai-chiao?
Modern Shuai-chiao (competing to throw) is the culmination of the ancient, crude, practical and effective combat grappling method of the battlefield - that has evolved into a sophisticated and efficient no non-sense approach to combat.
Its training method of using punches, kicks and joint-locks in the context of throwing can conform to all martial arts styles. Its philosophy share the same principle of Tai-chi Yin and Yang, the traditional cosmic law of China. In fact, the advanced Shuai-chiao practitioner views Shuai-chiao and Tai-chi as two sides of the same coin meeting at a junction, but coming from totally different origin. Shuai-chiao's techniques are the culmination of tested grappling experience in the best environment - the battlefield. Today, it is still a part of military and police training as well as a national sport in China and Taiwan.
Origin and development of Shuai-chiao
Shuai-chiao's earliest recorded use was by the Yellow Emperor of China, 2697 B.C. against the rebel enemy Chih-yiu and his army. They used horned helmets and gored their opponents while using a primitive form of grappling. This early recorded period was first called Chiao-ti (butting with horns). Throughout the centuries, the hands and arms replaced the horns while the techniques increased and improved. The name Chiao-ti also changed and was referred to by many names popular at that time in history or by government decree.
The original Chinese Martial Art, a combat wrestling system called Chiao-li (Contesting of strength), was systematized during the Chou Dynasty (1122-256 BC). This military combat wrestling system, the first combination of fighting techniques historically employed by the imperial military, consisted of throws (Shuai), hand and foot strikes (Ta), seizing a person's joints (Na), attacking vital parts (Tien) and breaking joints (Tuan). This format proves that Chiao-li used punches, kicks, vital point attacks, Chin-na seizing and breaking joints in the context of throwing. All of these elements of fighting skills were practiced in training during the winter months and used in hundreds of battles in ancient China. It is the root and the foundation of Chinese Martial Arts. At first Chiao-li emphasis is only for military combat, but it gradually became a sport in the Chin Dynasty (221-207 BC) during the reign of the second emperor and became an entertainment event in the fifth century. The importance of proper training methods for the practical aspects of self-defense or sparring is to be emphasized.
It is common knowledge that power and speed is of high importance in any kind of self-defense. Shuai-chiao training has been used for over 4,000 years, to train the Chinese Emperor's personal bodyguards, the military and still in the 20th century the police and military academies of China and Taiwan. Shuai-chiao embodies Tai-chi, Shaolin and the majority of Chinese martial arts as they are the offsprings of Shuai-chiao and is the root of all Chinese martial arts. It is the complementary subject matter for San-shou competition and for martial arts in general, a form of evaluation.
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The poem of Shuai-chiao
One thousand years ago, during the Five Dynasties (907-960 AD), a book titled Chih-yen by Wang Ting-pao quoted "The Poem of Chiao-ti (Chiao-ti fu)" by the author Chou Chien as follows, "Against attacking rivals from the front and the rear, all are powerful fighters. Grabbing and seizing opponents to the left and right, all are skillful fist fighters."
This Poem describes the dangerous fighting action of Chiao-ti, the original, ancient, classical Chinese term (2697 BC) for Chiao-li or Shuai-chiao. This fierce fighting description of Chin-na joint locks, punching, kicking and throwing opponents is more than 1,300 years old.
In ancient times, Shuai-chiao tournaments were done with nearly naked competitors, in modern times training can be done either in only shorts or with a heavy quilted canvas cotton jacket. One important point is that Shuai-chiao does not depend on the opponent's jacket or clothing in order to throw him. The priority is to grab the muscle and bone through the clothing in order to control and throw down the opponent. The use of the competitor's jacket that has short sleeves above the elbows and the jacket itself wraps tightly around the torso with a canvas belt, adds variety of techniques in controlling and throwing the opponent. Fast footwork using sweeps, inner hooks and kicks to the opponent's legs are combined with the controlling-striking arms that create a two directional action making a powerful throw. Kungfu pants and boots-wrestling shoes are usually worn, but bare feet are acceptable.
Accordingly there are many other major styles of Shuai-chiao such as Beijing, Tienchin, Mongolian (Boke) and Paoting which is also nick named Kuai-chiao or Fast Wrestling. There are diverse types of wrestling indigenous to the minority groups in China such as the Uighurs in Sinkiang and Yis in Yunan province. Most of the Shuai-chiao practitioners in the late Ching Dynasty are in the Northern China until the establishment of the Republic of China 1911. The art was then introduced to Southern China.
Famous masters of the late Ching early Republic of China are Ping Ching-I, Chang Feng-yen, Pai Chun-feng, Ku Jui-nien, Man Lao-ming, Shih Lao-chen, An Lao-hua, Wu Szu, Shan Tien-pao, Li Jui-tung, Chu Kuo-chen, Wang Tzu-ching and Ma Liang. They were followed by the well known figures of modern shuai-chiao: Chang Tung-ju, Chang Tung-sheng, Chang Tung-po, Chang Tung-chi, Yen Shan-i and Ma Wen-kuei of the Pao-ting style;and Shen San, Yang Chun-hen, and Pao Shan of the Beijing style; and Mu Hsiang-kuei, Liu Shao-tseng and Pu En-fu of the Tien-chin style.
When Taiwan split from China in 1949, a few champions of Shuai-chiao migrated to Taiwan and introduced Shuai-chiao. The most famous master was Chang Tung-sheng. After the 1970's experts such as Chang Tung-sheng, Jeng Hsing-ping, David Lin, Chi-hsiu D. Weng (USA), Li Wing-kay (Brazil),Yuan Tzu-mou (France), Ching Cheng-hwang (Germany), Luis Lin (Sweden) from China and Taiwan promoted Shuai-chiao overseas to Europe, the United States and Pan America.
*** FIN DEL LADRILLO ***Training
A sophisticated, tested design should be used when training. Some of the most common and popular that is prevalent in Shuai-chiao training will be mentioned so that the reader may be exposed to this ancient fighting art. Many of these training methods require a special designed apparatus, facilities, or large training area. The training methods are divided into two categories: the first category is bare hands and the second category is with an apparatus.
Training with bare hands is for balance, flexibility, strength and body awareness. There are training postures, moving steps, which can be done solo or with a partner. Hand and foot drills help to increase maneuverability, balance, and coordination. They improve related techniques when combined with San-shou (Freestyle kickboxing) or self defense techniques. Once you have proficiency in these drills you can then practice with a partner.
Working with a partner allows one to emphasize power and coordination instead of just skill. Drills against full speed punches, kicks and grappling attacks are practiced to aid in training for San-shou (Chinese freestyle kickboxing) and self defense. The author (Chi-hsiu D. Weng, Ph.D.), former instructor of the Central Police College and Military College of Taiwan and assistant to the late Grandmaster Ch'ang T'ung-sheng would like to stress the importance of practicing free sparring drills and related mock physical encounter situations. For the inexperienced novice student, to learn, remember and deploy martial art techniques quickly is already difficult to do, let alone choosing the appropriate technique under stress. Technical fighting theory and understanding is the knowledge, while effective physical applications of those Shuai-chiao techniques are the requirements of practical self-defense.
Shuai-chiao is the only grappling art that developed belt cracking drills for skill, power, coordination and speed. Long and short canvas bags filled with steel shots to train the practitioner in timing, balance and controlling momentum while toughening the hands and building strength in the arms. Other apparatus training are striking & kicking the heavy bag, weight training, leg lifting of a weighted pole and brick twisting and thrusting.
With China bordering many countries, Shuai-chiao naturally influenced the evolution of wrestling as the civiliation spread. The Chinese characters of the Tang Dynasty Shan-pu (attacking each other) are the same characters used in Japanese wrestling (Sumo) and Korean wrestling (Ssirum). Shuai-chiao origins are in the northern part of China-Mongolia. This Military combat wrestling was further tempered with Mongolian wrestling (Boke) techniques as well as influencing wrestling in other dominated countries of Eastern Europe, India, Russia-Siberia and the countries along the Silk Route during the Yuan Dynasty by Genghis Kahn.
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The modern Teng-chieh (Ranking system) was divided into ten levels. Progressing from beginner, intermediate to professional level, this ranking system was originally created by Grandmaster Ch'ang Tung-sheng, (the undefeated champion of Shuai-chiao who was also know as the "King of Shuai-chiao") and was adapted by the Central Police College in the textbook he wrote in 1966,"The Method of Shuai-chiao" .....
The five levels below Teng (Expert) category was also designed by Grandmaster Ch'ang. The five Chieh (literally stairs) are to be completed in the four years of freshman to senior years in the Central Police College. Students' training classes four hours a week must be completed, passed and received at Black Belt (9th Teng) before graduation. The lowest level is 9th Teng, which is equivalent to first degree or shodan Black Belt in the Japanese style of grappling. Therefore, the system is organized as Ninth (9th) Teng to First (1st) Teng, which is in the Japanese style of grappling First Dan to Ninth Dan. The Tenth or final level is called the "Teng of Perfection". Reserved for Grandmaster Ch'ang is "Teng of Art" for the Level of Proficient Artistic Perfection to honor the founder of the lineage Grandmaster Ch'ang T'ung-sheng. (See the cover photo July 1983 Blackbelt Magazine)
The new ranking system complied by Grandmaster Ch'ang and his assistant Dr. Chi-hsiu D.Weng in the summer of 1983 and was first adopted by the International Shuai-chiao Association and later the United States Shuai-chiao Association after Grandmaster Ch'ang passed away in 1985.
1.Green belt (5th Chieh)
2.Green-Blue (4th Chieh)
3.Blue belt I (3rd Chieh)
4.Blue belt II (2nd Chieh)
5.Blue belt III (1st Chieh)
6.Black Belt .....
1st degree (9th Teng)
2nd degree (8th Teng)
3rd degree (7th Teng)
4th degree (6th Teng) - Yellow
5th degree (5th Teng)
6th degree (4th Teng)
7th degree (3rd Teng) - Yellow & red
8th degree (2nd Teng)
9th degree (1st Teng) - Yellow, red, yellow
10th degree (Teng of Perfection)
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Invitado
Pienso que el Wu-shu del estilo Hung Gar tambien es muy útil, en cuanto a percusión se hace mucho puño y solo las patadas más típicas, lateral, circular, frontal y algunas más y se enfoca mucho a la estabilidad, prácticamente nada de saltos y patadas altas. Además tambien aprendes luxaciones y sanda que aunque no deja de ser competición las técnicas de derribo y proyecciones las veo muy útiles por su sencillez en general. Ah, y me olvidaba, tambien se practica un estilo de lucha tipo Judo que ahora no recuerdo como se llamaba.
Lo único que no se hace es suelo, pero bueno es normal lo del suelo se contempla en general desde hace poco relativamente y muchas artes marciales aun no lo han introducido, bien por que no es su objetivo o bien pq aun no se han decidido.
No digo que sea la mejor arte marcial ni mucho menos pero la veo bastante real y completo.
Lo único que no se hace es suelo, pero bueno es normal lo del suelo se contempla en general desde hace poco relativamente y muchas artes marciales aun no lo han introducido, bien por que no es su objetivo o bien pq aun no se han decidido.
No digo que sea la mejor arte marcial ni mucho menos pero la veo bastante real y completo.
Corregirme si me equivoco, pero, por ejemplo, si alguien practica un arte marcial coreana la complementará mejor con otra de origen coreano, si es japonesa con otra japonesa, china con china...
Aunque se puedan complementar artes de distinta procedencia siempre se combinarán mejor las que tengan raíces similares (opinión personal, no se trata de ningún dogma) ¿Que opináis?
Aunque se puedan complementar artes de distinta procedencia siempre se combinarán mejor las que tengan raíces similares (opinión personal, no se trata de ningún dogma) ¿Que opináis?
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Invitado
Yo creo que tienes bastante razón Kenshin, pero tampoco está tan cerrada la cosa, por ejemplo no es bueno hacer Karate y Kung Fu pq sus bases son totalmente distintas y si crees en una no puede ser que creas en la otra pq las ideas del movimiento son totalmente distintas pero creo que tampoco se ha de hacer tanto por paises si no finjandose en que sus bases no se contradigan.
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Pavel Saenz
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Byulkunjik
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Miguel BORDERA
Que combinación
Pues yo creo que el arte marcial vietnamita tradicional no necesita ninguna combinación ya que incluye técnicas de percusión, agarres y luxaciones, barridos, proyecciones, tijeras
En el apartado de lucha tenemos el Vat ya sea de pie o al suelo.
En el apartado de armas el Binh Khi o armas tradicionales
En el apratado interno el KHI CONG
Y TODO eso es obligatorio en los examenes de grados, con lo cual no veo la necesidad de combinar con nada más.
Un Saludo
Miguel BORDERA
VO CO TRUYEN VIETNAM
XICH MINH LONG
En el apartado de lucha tenemos el Vat ya sea de pie o al suelo.
En el apartado de armas el Binh Khi o armas tradicionales
En el apratado interno el KHI CONG
Y TODO eso es obligatorio en los examenes de grados, con lo cual no veo la necesidad de combinar con nada más.
Un Saludo
Miguel BORDERA
VO CO TRUYEN VIETNAM
XICH MINH LONG
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PANZERKAMPF IV
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evolution
hola amigos-marciales mi nombre es leo y soy de peru, desde que comenso este !!real-maravilloso¡¡ foro lo e venido leyendo (en especial las intervensiones de einerjar, pavel saenz, wtfight) y gracias a su lectura me e infomado muchisimo. pero esta es mi primera intervencion.respecto a lo de la mejor combinacion pasare a dar mi pareser. desde mi modesta optica la mejor combinacion es:artes de percusion boxeo ingles, san shou, muay thai.artesdegrappling:luta livre o submission wrestling -armas:kali/eskrima/arnis en muy especial preferensia el sistema dog brothers martial arts las disciplinas que "me paresen" buenos ingredientes para esta cocina marcial son:ju jutsu tradicional, kenpo americano, kyusho jitsu, wing tsun,aikido longueira ryu.pero como dudo de su eficacia vendrian a ser combinaciones de segunda eleccion.