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The conditioned body of Aiki
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Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Gracias, realmente cosas interesantes
Especialmente me ha hecho gracas estas dos
May 24th, 1964
About Zen
You will not be able to fight if you calm yourself through Zen. Zen is unnecessary for Bujutsu. It is said that the Yagyu learned Zen in ancient times, but I think that shows a flaw in their Kenjutsu. Bujutsu is achieved through doing Bujutsu. Nothing else is needed.
February 10th, 1966
Using things like Zen or meditation to increase your mental strength is an attempt to become strong through dependence upon another power, and I think that it is not very effective. The most important thing is to maintain with absolute certainty and tenacity that you will never lose to another person. Even if it's a bluff, if you continue to do it for a lifetime it will become the truth.
Saludos
Especialmente me ha hecho gracas estas dos
May 24th, 1964
About Zen
You will not be able to fight if you calm yourself through Zen. Zen is unnecessary for Bujutsu. It is said that the Yagyu learned Zen in ancient times, but I think that shows a flaw in their Kenjutsu. Bujutsu is achieved through doing Bujutsu. Nothing else is needed.
February 10th, 1966
Using things like Zen or meditation to increase your mental strength is an attempt to become strong through dependence upon another power, and I think that it is not very effective. The most important thing is to maintain with absolute certainty and tenacity that you will never lose to another person. Even if it's a bluff, if you continue to do it for a lifetime it will become the truth.
Saludos
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Keisetsu Yoshimaru en acción:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=929VChlVZ5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYyD9LyAYE
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
¿ Por qué pasa eso ? ¿ Es algún sutilísimo juego de equilibrio ?
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Flintstone
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Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Aiki.Sabre escribió:¿ Por qué pasa eso ? ¿ Es algún sutilísimo juego de equilibrio ?
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Ver vídeos de demostraciones de "Aiki" con ukes de papel de fumar, que pesan 50kg o que les sacan una cabeza, no demuestran nada más que "alucinancias" de salón, y en el caso de los vídeos, de forma literal. Eso no es Aiki, eso es tomarle el pelo a la gente. El día que "ese" Aiki lo vea aplicar sobre bichos de 100kg que se mueven y no dejan de moverse tras agarrar o golpear, entonces acepto pulpo. Es muy fácil fantasear con un uke con bracitos de cristal, con unos cuantos kilos menos que tú y que "complace" al maestro. El "cójeme de la mano que te la retuerzo" es bien fácil. Para aprender está bien, pero luego es necesario algo como "tírame una combinación de manos, que yo te lanzo por los aires". El día que vea Aiki así (bueno, ya lo he visto), entonces acepto pulpo.
Sobre lo del Zen y el Bujutsu. Habrá gente que consiga estados de calma sentados y en zazen, dando castañazos a un saco, bailando samba o jugando al mus. Cada cual tiene sus herramientas. No todo es Zen, por supuesto, y para aprender a pegar, hay que pegarse, y poca religión hay en ello. Pero es que hace 400 años tampoco había mucho más donde escoger, y más en una sociedad neo-confuciana. Que a este señor el zen no le ayude en sus propósitos, es aceptable. Pero eso no invalida que a otra persona, si. He leído varias veces a Takuan Soho, y su texto Fudo Chishin Myoroku (supuestamente dirigido a Yagyu Munenori) me parece brillante, excepcional, coherente y altamente aplicable en combate.
Saludos,
Tengu
Sobre lo del Zen y el Bujutsu. Habrá gente que consiga estados de calma sentados y en zazen, dando castañazos a un saco, bailando samba o jugando al mus. Cada cual tiene sus herramientas. No todo es Zen, por supuesto, y para aprender a pegar, hay que pegarse, y poca religión hay en ello. Pero es que hace 400 años tampoco había mucho más donde escoger, y más en una sociedad neo-confuciana. Que a este señor el zen no le ayude en sus propósitos, es aceptable. Pero eso no invalida que a otra persona, si. He leído varias veces a Takuan Soho, y su texto Fudo Chishin Myoroku (supuestamente dirigido a Yagyu Munenori) me parece brillante, excepcional, coherente y altamente aplicable en combate.
Saludos,
Tengu
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Oigan en los videos no suena como si en la cocina estuvieran friyendo churros, o algo así? O haciendo palomitas de maíz...Algo se cuece en esa cocina, fijo.
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Este señor necesitaría ayuda de muchas cosas para mostrar algo potableQue a este señor el zen no le ayude en sus propósitos, es aceptable
lo peor de ver algo así con un uke de papel es que muestra, para mi, algo mucho peor que lo que se ve técnicamente, y es que si tu nivel de maestro se puede ver en en el nivel de tus alumnos 
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Kopiller
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Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
SObre los videos no voy a comentar porque no tengo ni idea en el contexto ni la intencion con la que se han gravado, sobre las frases creo que no haveis leido los enlaces que ha puesto Jaime G y solo os haveis quedado con lo dicho por Nocaut, las frases son sacadas de un libro del señor Yoshimaru pero son frases de Yukiyoshi Sagawa.
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Hasta donde yo veo, es un señor mayor explicandole a un tercero una serie de principios más que dando demostración de algo. Que si fuera algo tipo proyecciones de ki con gente volando en plan kia master, vale. Pero ni uno tira a muerte ni el otro ataca a muerte. Para lo que se ve y considerándolo como aparentemente una mera explicación de unos principios, no veo porque el uke no se iba a dejar; ni tampoco en el mismo contexto porque en una simple explicación uke no vale si no pesa un quintal y tira a muerte. Si se lucha pues que se luche, pero para explicaciones "complacer", sea de forma lógica en cuanto a la explicación o más babosa por peloteo/ignorancia, se ha "complacido" siempre a todo el mundo.tengu escribió:Ver vídeos de demostraciones de "Aiki" con ukes de papel de fumar, que pesan 50kg o que les sacan una cabeza, no demuestran nada más que "alucinancias" de salón, y en el caso de los vídeos, de forma literal. Eso no es Aiki, eso es tomarle el pelo a la gente.
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Hombre, a mi el Zen no me va mucho y no espero que un hombre mayor muestre demasiadas cosas con resistencia, me quedo con detalles del entrenamiento físico que salen en los links:
November 15th, 1965
If you are conditioned then it will always show in the form. My hands became this way because they are conditioned.
August 23rd, 1965
Make a point of strengthening the joints - ankles, knees, the hip joints connecting the upper and lower bodies, and you must also strengthen things like the wrists.
August 25th, 1965
In the end, if your body is not conditioned then even if you are taught you won't be able to do anything. It's a problem of building the body.
January 19th, 1966
Building the legs and hips is the way to progress. The is a conclusion that I have reached through long years of experience.
January 8th, 1967
Also, when using the sword the strength of the wrists (snap) and the reversal of the wrists is extremely important.
March 14th, 1966
You cannot do technique if your body is not developed. Lately I have been taking it a little easier, but I still continue training Henko Ashi (変更足) three thousand times a day. I also try to do all of the sword, staff, spear and striking as usual. If you don't continue to do this every day you cannot call yourself a Bujutsu-ka. Because of that, I am confident that I can respond to a challenge at any time. Of course, it's not something that you can use instantly if you haven't used it for a long time.
August 22nd, 1968
"Suburi"
First, building the body. Cut to the left and right, alternate your feet on the left and right stepping forward slightly and cut. (1) Shomen (2) Yokomen to the right and left. At first relax and stretch out your arms as you strike. Next, study the concentration of power in the tip of the sword. Swing so that it feels as if the blade is striking two or three inches below the tip of the sword. Only after you have swung some ten thousands or hundred thousands of times will you first begin to reach the limits of your body.
September 19th, 1974
If you use a sword then Suburi is your base. Stretch out and make a large cut straight downwards without any tension. At least three hundred times a day - if you don't do it for three years then it won't stick with you.
August 6th, 1971
If you swing the Furibo (*a heavy club swung for conditioning and strength training) you will become able to swing it endlessly. I once swung one seven hundred times.
October 21st, 1968
It's necessary to concentrate power in the forearms. Exercises like swinging the Furibo are effective, but there aren't any results for six months to a year.
May 24th, 1964
In order to become strong it is necessary to strengthen the grip of your left hand.
October 24th, 1969
In the end, cultivating the body is the most important thing. Training in Henko Ashi (変更足) is important. Also, it is extremely important to turn on the tips of your toes.
anuary 9th, 1970
The most important thing in Aiki is the legs. You must build muscle in the necessary areas of the hips and legs through training the legs in "Henko".
June 29th, 1970
In Age-te, the most important thing is building the body.
December 28th, 1970
When conditioning, if you do not think of what your goals are, what you are going to move and why, and the reasons for doing it, there will be little result.
July 23rd, 1971
The way that I built my body was through push-ups. From the time that I was a teenager I would train 1,500 times a day. Through that it became possible for my body to become a single unit. This is not limited to push-ups, but it is important to continue each physical training method for at least three years. Suburi, for example.
April 5th, 1971
It's no good if you don't have thick thighs. Conditioning yourself and becoming strong means that you're building muscle.
July (no date) 1970
The muscle on your hips and abdomen must be thick and you must begin to move from there. Technique done with slim hips will not be effective. However, thickness from fat is no good.
November 15th, 1965
If you are conditioned then it will always show in the form. My hands became this way because they are conditioned.
August 23rd, 1965
Make a point of strengthening the joints - ankles, knees, the hip joints connecting the upper and lower bodies, and you must also strengthen things like the wrists.
August 25th, 1965
In the end, if your body is not conditioned then even if you are taught you won't be able to do anything. It's a problem of building the body.
January 19th, 1966
Building the legs and hips is the way to progress. The is a conclusion that I have reached through long years of experience.
January 8th, 1967
Also, when using the sword the strength of the wrists (snap) and the reversal of the wrists is extremely important.
March 14th, 1966
You cannot do technique if your body is not developed. Lately I have been taking it a little easier, but I still continue training Henko Ashi (変更足) three thousand times a day. I also try to do all of the sword, staff, spear and striking as usual. If you don't continue to do this every day you cannot call yourself a Bujutsu-ka. Because of that, I am confident that I can respond to a challenge at any time. Of course, it's not something that you can use instantly if you haven't used it for a long time.
August 22nd, 1968
"Suburi"
First, building the body. Cut to the left and right, alternate your feet on the left and right stepping forward slightly and cut. (1) Shomen (2) Yokomen to the right and left. At first relax and stretch out your arms as you strike. Next, study the concentration of power in the tip of the sword. Swing so that it feels as if the blade is striking two or three inches below the tip of the sword. Only after you have swung some ten thousands or hundred thousands of times will you first begin to reach the limits of your body.
September 19th, 1974
If you use a sword then Suburi is your base. Stretch out and make a large cut straight downwards without any tension. At least three hundred times a day - if you don't do it for three years then it won't stick with you.
August 6th, 1971
If you swing the Furibo (*a heavy club swung for conditioning and strength training) you will become able to swing it endlessly. I once swung one seven hundred times.
October 21st, 1968
It's necessary to concentrate power in the forearms. Exercises like swinging the Furibo are effective, but there aren't any results for six months to a year.
May 24th, 1964
In order to become strong it is necessary to strengthen the grip of your left hand.
October 24th, 1969
In the end, cultivating the body is the most important thing. Training in Henko Ashi (変更足) is important. Also, it is extremely important to turn on the tips of your toes.
anuary 9th, 1970
The most important thing in Aiki is the legs. You must build muscle in the necessary areas of the hips and legs through training the legs in "Henko".
June 29th, 1970
In Age-te, the most important thing is building the body.
December 28th, 1970
When conditioning, if you do not think of what your goals are, what you are going to move and why, and the reasons for doing it, there will be little result.
July 23rd, 1971
The way that I built my body was through push-ups. From the time that I was a teenager I would train 1,500 times a day. Through that it became possible for my body to become a single unit. This is not limited to push-ups, but it is important to continue each physical training method for at least three years. Suburi, for example.
April 5th, 1971
It's no good if you don't have thick thighs. Conditioning yourself and becoming strong means that you're building muscle.
July (no date) 1970
The muscle on your hips and abdomen must be thick and you must begin to move from there. Technique done with slim hips will not be effective. However, thickness from fat is no good.
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Flintstone
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Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Hombre, Xavi. No creo que lo de los vídeos sea una demostración. De todas formas no sé si todo el mundo tiene la misma idea en la cabeza cuando se habla de Aiki así, en general. Bueno, sí lo sétengu escribió:Ver vídeos de demostraciones de "Aiki" con ukes de papel de fumar, que pesan 50kg o que les sacan una cabeza, no demuestran nada más que "alucinancias" de salón, y en el caso de los vídeos, de forma literal. Eso no es Aiki, eso es tomarle el pelo a la gente.
.Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
¿ Hacer Aiki no es aprovechar todo lo posible la inercia del atacante para por ejemplo desequilibrarle ?
¿ Aiki significa unir energías, no ? Pues entonces en vez de ir fuerza contra fuerza intentaríamos sumarle a la fuerza del atacante la nuestra propia para cambiar su recorrido, así lo entiendo yo.
¿ Aiki significa unir energías, no ? Pues entonces en vez de ir fuerza contra fuerza intentaríamos sumarle a la fuerza del atacante la nuestra propia para cambiar su recorrido, así lo entiendo yo.
Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
@Sabre
En este caso "aiki" se usa como "fuerza interna + habilidad de anular la fuerza del oponente" mas que como utilización de la inercia del atacante o como suma de fuerzas.
En este caso "aiki" se usa como "fuerza interna + habilidad de anular la fuerza del oponente" mas que como utilización de la inercia del atacante o como suma de fuerzas.
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Flintstone
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Re: The conditioned body of Aiki
Eso es Awase, no Aiki. Aunque la idea de que Awase = Aiki está tan extendida que es la idea general que se tiene. ¿Qué diferencia lo que describes del Ju? ¿En Jujutsu no se aprovechan esas inercias?Sabre escribió:¿ Hacer Aiki no es aprovechar todo lo posible la inercia del atacante para por ejemplo desequilibrarle ?
¿ Aiki significa unir energías, no ? Pues entonces en vez de ir fuerza contra fuerza intentaríamos sumarle a la fuerza del atacante la nuestra propia para cambiar su recorrido, así lo entiendo yo.
A mí modo de ver y entender (a día de hoy) Awase (合わせ, lit. "armonización") es la armonización con el movimiento de uke de manera que no haya colisión; y Musubi (結び, lit. "unión") es, tras el awase, hacer de uke y tori un sólo cuerpo, una sola persona (manejada a voluntad de tori), anulando a uke, y hacer con este movimiento lo que queramos. Awase y musubi son manifestaciones "externas" de Aiki (合気), pero no se limitan a manejar inercias. Cuando Yoshimaru gira las manos en el justo momento en que uke va a agarrarle y ya no puede cambiar su intención, eso es awase. Cuando luego menea a uke, eso es Musubi. Y falta lo que va por dentro que no vemos y que le permite hacer lo que hace (IT, IHTBF, etc).
Como digo, eso es lo que pienso hoy. Mañana ya veremos...